CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Debbie Dingell
Interview
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SCIUTTO: Any moment now, House Democrats are expected to release transcripts from two key witnesses in the impeachment inquiry. You could say the public phase of this investigation has begun.
Joining me now, Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Congresswoman, we appreciate you taking the time this morning.
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Thank you. Good morning, good to be with you.
SCIUTTO: I want to begin with the whistleblower who, of course, started this. And comments, public comments from a rally in Kentucky yesterday from Senator Rand Paul, I want to play them and get your reaction. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): The whistleblower needs to come before Congress as a material witness because he worked for Joe Biden at the same time Hunter Biden was getting money from corrupt oligarchs. I say tonight to the media, do your job and print his name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Now, as you know, whistleblower laws are designed explicitly to protect the identity of whistleblowers so they feel protected as they share information or evidence of wrongdoing. By attempting -- encouraging the outing of him or her, both Senator Paul but also the president himself, are they encouraging breaking the law? DINGELL: Yes, quite frankly, they are. Those whistleblower laws are there for a very real reason, which is for our national security, to protect people so that their lives aren't endangered or their jobs aren't endangered if they come forward in an appropriate process that's been identified to the inspector generals.
And we don't need to -- it would be irresponsible for anybody -- I don't know who the whistleblower is, I don't know whether they worked for anybody, I don't know what sex they are. And I don't want to know. We've got enough information now that's come forward in independent testimony that's now being made public that, quite frankly, it's irresponsible and dangerous, what was done yesterday.
SCIUTTO: As you're aware, the Justice Department has now released new guidance for witnesses to the impeachment inquiry, saying that their testimony would be legally invalid unless they allow -- unless the Democrats allow for the witness to bring a government lawyer. What's your reaction to that policy?
DINGELL: I think it's a source of intimidation. You've seen, already, a couple people who have quit their jobs as they went up to testify. Others that are refusing to testify. We've seen this happen in the past, not in quite such an emotional times, but I have seen people subpoenaed, I have seen people arrested, I've seen them threatened.
You know, there are three branches of government. Our forefathers knew what they were doing with the sets of checks and balances, and there's a reason.
SCIUTTO: The stonewalling by the White House, and now backed up by this legal guidance, has worked for a number of witnesses, although others have defied that pushback and gone ahead and testified under oath. Have you seen enough evidence already, in your view, to vote yes on an article of impeachment for the president for abusing power with regards to Ukraine?
DINGELL: I'm very, very careful. I voted to move forward with a process about how this investigation would occur. We've got to follow the facts. Nobody is above the rule of the law, and I'm very worried for our democracy and our Constitution.
But I'm waiting for this full investigation to occur, for all the facts to be presented before I make up my mind. And I think it's very important for all of us to remember that. I woke up to Jason's piece this morning on "NEW DAY." And people in this country are divided --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
DINGELL: -- and they need to know that we are going to have a fair and balanced process, and I'm committed to doing that. Making up my mind now would not be fair.
SCIUTTO: To Jason Carroll's piece, which you mentioned as we just aired there, you do have a number of voters who do not support the impeachment inquiry. And we look at the broader state among Michigan voters on the question of impeaching and removing Trump from office, 51 percent oppose, only 42 percent support. That, of course, different from national polling, which has shown it about split.
[10:40:11]
How much does this concern you? And do you believe Democrats will pay a political price for backing the impeachment inquiry in your state, and possibly the Democratic presidential candidate?
DINGELL: So, first of all, the election's a year away, it's a long time. But I will tell you that I -- what was in that piece, I experienced but probably more intensely on both sides. I get yelled at every single day, by people on both sides.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I hear you.
DINGELL: Over the -- yes, it's great.
(LAUGHTER)
I mean, I have Ann Arbor, which is very strongly for, and down rivers, which are very strongly opposed. But having said that, I gave several speeches over the weekend, and was very pointed in this. And said to people who have strong feelings, that everybody needs to take a deep breath.
I don't believe any of this polling. You'll remember, three years ago, I told you Donald Trump could win Michigan, and everybody thought I was crazy --
SCIUTTO: To your credit.
DINGELL: -- but it's my gut. And my gut says that we have to have an open and transparent process. People need to see what the facts are. They need to feel like we are not railroading somebody and not throwing the kitchen sink at them. They've got to know that we're being fair.
And at the same time, they also want to see us not only do impeachment for a solid year. But we've got to lower the price of prescription drugs, we've got to be delivering on a --
SCIUTTO: Right.
DINGELL: -- trade deal, and we've got to do both.
SCIUTTO: And those are the issues that Democrats ran on in 2018 with great success.
But there was a worrisome line in the "New York Times'" polling yesterday in these swing states, including in Michigan, and it's this. Nearly two-thirds of the Trump voters who said they voted for Democratic congressional candidates in 2018, say that they will back the president against all three named Democratic opponents.
And I wonder if you fear (ph) -- yes, it's a year out to the election, but it's a year since the midterms. And a lot of these voters haven't seen what you promised there, progress on these other issues. Are you concerned that you failed to deliver for these swing voters?
DINGELL: Well, I'm going to tell you something (ph). So did the president. The president said his number one issue was to lower the cost of prescription drugs, and I think we've got to work together to deliver that. So Republicans have got that same problem.
Look, I think this state is competitive and I think that it could go either way. I feel very much like I did three years ago. But I think the next -- we need to be very aware of that. I think that we've got to make sure that we are talking about the issues. And I think both Republicans and Democrats, there are people out there that want to see us deliver not only on prescription drugs, but on trade deals.
But I'll tell you something. I will (ph) -- this is a wake-up call, and I told this to everybody this weekend. I walked the picket line with UAW workers every day that I was home. And now (ph) in Washington, and there were union workers that are still voting for President Trump. There are people that --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
DINGELL: -- both of us, all of us. Democrats have to do a better job of -- and we are -- of what we're doing for the people. We have to do -- we have to work on issues, we have to talk about everyday issues that we did a lousy job on three years ago, and I've said it. But I think we can do a much better job, and I think the White House is totally focused on impeachment --
SCIUTTO: Well --
DINGELL: -- and not focused on getting other things done like we are.
SCIUTTO: Well, we'll be out there with those voters as well, asking that same question. Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thanks very much.
DINGELL: Thank you.
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