NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. John Kennedy
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana, who also happens to sit on the Judiciary Committee in the Senate side of things. Senator Kennedy, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Thank you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
You appeared on a show last Sunday and you walked back a comment that you made there. Can you explain what you misstated and what you, what you wanted to fix? What part of the record you wanted to correct?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Sure. I walked it back because I was wrong.
CHUCK TODD:
About what?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Chris Wallace was interviewing me. I'm sorry?
CHUCK TODD:
About what? What were you wrong about?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, Chris Wallace was interviewing me and he asked me a question and I answered it. I thought he had asked me if Ukraine had meddled in the 2016 election. He didn't. He asked me if Ukraine was responsible for hacking the DNC computer, which is of course a form of meddling. I went back and looked at the transcript and I realized Chris was right and I was wrong, so I said I was wrong.
CHUCK TODD:
The issue of conflating what Ukraine did and what Russia did has been, I think, at the heart of some of the criticism you've received. Michael Gerson, who's no liberal columnist in the Washington Post, certainly not a fan of President Trump either, I'll grant you that.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Uh-huh.
CHUCK TODD:
But here's what he wrote about your appearance. He said this: "Politicians such as Kennedy must know the truth about Russia aggression, but still they choose to suck up to the president by reflecting his mania and sharing his blind spots. Loyalty to Trump among Republicans is proved by the loosening of all other loyalties, to truth, to honesty, and to the national good. By this measure, Kennedy is profoundly loyal to the president." Simply uttering this conflation on Ukraine and Russia, the inference is you're doing the president's dirty work here. Do you accept that criticism?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, listen, I like Michael Gerson. I haven't met him, but I know he's a smart guy and I read his columns now and again. I disagree with him. I think both Russia and Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. I think it's been well documented in the Financial Times, in Politico, in The Economist, in the Washington Examiner, even on CBS, that the prime minister of Ukraine, the interior minister, the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States, the head of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption League, all meddled in the election on social media and otherwise. They worked with a DNC operative --
CHUCK TODD:
Did you -- all right, let me --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
-- against the president. In fact, can I make one more point, Chuck?
CHUCK TODD:
Sure.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Can I make one more point?
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
In fact, in December of 2018, a Ukrainian court ruled that Ukrainian officials had violated Ukrainian law by, by meddling in our election. And that was reported in the New York Times.
CHUCK TODD:
Were you, were you --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Now, is there, is there meddling -- I'm sorry.
CHUCK TODD:
No, no, no, were you briefed --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Go ahead.
CHUCK TODD:
-- by the intelligence -- according to the New York Times a couple of weeks ago, U.S. senators were briefed after Fiona Hill's testimony that actually this entire effort to frame Ukraine for the Russian meddling of 2016, of which you, you just made this case that they've done it, that actually this is an effort of Russia propaganda, that this is a Russian intelligence propaganda campaign in order to get people like you to say these things about Ukraine.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Uh-huh.
CHUCK TODD:
They're trying to frame Ukraine. You apparently were briefed about this in the United States Senate by intelligence officials. Are you at all concerned you're doing Russian intelligence work here?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
I was not briefed.
CHUCK TODD:
You didn't attend that briefing?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
And now, listen, doctor --
CHUCK TODD:
You didn't attend a briefing on that?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
No. And doctor --
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
I wasn't briefed. Dr. Hill is entitled to her opinion. But when The Economist magazine --
CHUCK TODD:
When does opinion, when does opinion become fact? Does 17 intelligence services saying it, does every western intelligence ally saying Russia did this? I'm just sort of confused, at what point is it no longer an opinion for you?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
I don't think it's an opinion. I think it's a fact. I believe the reporting by the Politico magazine.
CHUCK TODD:
You just said Fiona Hill --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
I believe the reporting by The Economist.
CHUCK TODD:
You just said Fiona Hill gave an opinion.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
I believe the report -- I believe the reporting by The Financial Times. I believe the reporting by the Washington Examiner. You should read the articles, Chuck. They're very well documented. And I believe that a Ukrainian district court, in December of 2018, slapped down several Ukrainian officials for meddling in our election as a violation of Ukrainian law. Now, I didn't report those facts. Reputable journalists reported those facts. Does that mean that Ukrainian, the Ukrainian leaders were more aggressive than Russia? No. Russia was very aggressive and they're much more sophisticated. But the fact that Russia was so aggressive does not exclude the fact that President Poroshenko actively worked for Secretary Clinton. Now, if I'm wrong and if all of these journalists --
CHUCK TODD:
Actively worked for Secretary --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
-- are wrong --
CHUCK TODD:
I mean, my goodness, wait a minute, Senator Kennedy, you now have the president of Ukraine saying he actively worked for the Democratic nominee for president. I mean, now come on. I mean, I got to put up -- you realize the only other person selling this argument outside the United States is this man, Vladimir Putin. This is what he said on November 20th: "Thank God nobody is accusing us anymore of interfering in U.S. elections. Now they're accusing Ukraine. Well, let them sort this out among themselves." You just accused a former president of Ukraine. You have done exactly what the Russian operation is trying to get American politicians to do. Are you at all concerned that you've been duped?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
No, because you -- just read the articles. Do you believe The Economist magazine is a reputable journal? It's been around, I think, since 1843. They pretty much --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think there's a difference in criticizing --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
They're not liberal or conservative.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think there's a difference in a country criticizing a presidential candidate who essentially endorsed another country's invasion and annexation of a part of their country as equivalent to what Russia did with the DNC?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, let me put it this way, Chuck. Let's suppose, and I don't, I don't believe it, but you're right and I'm wrong. Then what harm would it do to allow the president of the United States, who has a demonstrated record fighting foreign corruption, to introduce evidence?
CHUCK TODD:
Why doesn't he?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
What harm would it do?
CHUCK TODD:
He has been, he has been provided every opportunity to provide exculpatory evidence on any of this and they have chosen not to.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
No, he hasn't. No, he hasn't.
CHUCK TODD:
Yes, he has.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Rounds one and two by Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Schiff are as rigged as a carnival ring toss, and we both know that. If I were a prosecutor and I were prosecuting you for a felony, and I went to a federal judge and I said, "Judge, we both know Chuck's guilty. So, let me call witnesses. Give me an order that he can't call any witnesses. He can't cross-examine my witnesses. He can't offer any rebuttal evidence. His lawyer can't even be there," you know what that federal judge would do?
CHUCK TODD:
But that wasn't the trial.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
He'd either put me in handcuffs --
CHUCK TODD:
You're going to get a trial.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
-- or he'd put me in a straightjacket, because I'd be sanctioned.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think this White House --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
And that's what happened here.
CHUCK TODD:
But Senator, this White House has not, has not cooperated on any oversight at all. Have they not brought some of this upon themselves?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Have they allowed the president to call his own witnesses? No. Have they allowed him to have his lawyer present? No. Have they allowed him to offer rebuttal evidence? No. Have they allowed him to cross-examine the witnesses that were hand-picked by Speaker Pelosi? No. Now, whether you like the president or you don't, we both, I know, agree with due process. Nobody is above the law, Chuck, but nobody's beneath the law. And the Bill of Rights is not an à la carte menu. It's not.
CHUCK TODD:
We will leave it there. Senator Kennedy, Republican from Louisiana. You guys didn't get tripped up this weekend, so LSU's clear sailing for next week. But don't blow it. Don't blow it and mess up the whole playoff --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
We won't.
CHUCK TODD:
-- system there. Thanks for coming on and sharing your view, sir.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Thank you, Chuck.
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