NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Roger Wicker
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi. He's a member of the Armed Services Committee. He also co-chairs the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. Senator Wicker, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Thank you. Glad to be here.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to start with something that we got a report on earlier this week and it has to do with supposedly an intelligence briefing that senators have received. First, let me play what Fiona Hill said about Russia and Ukraine at the hearing earlier this week. Take a listen.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FIONA HILL:
Right now, Russia's security services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election. We are running out of time to stop them. In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Can you confirm that you guys have been given an intelligence briefing on this issue that Russia is trying to frame Ukraine?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Some members have. I have not.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
But I'm not at all surprised that Russia is gearing up. I'm not at all surprised that -- she's correct that Russia tried to interfere in 2016. Also Ukrainians themselves tried to interfere also. But Chuck, I --
CHUCK TODD:
Isn't there a big difference between the two and the Ukrainians? Look, I understand there's individual Ukrainians who were upset that candidate Donald Trump wanted Crimea to stay with Russia. Is that the same as the Russian government and Putin ordering a full-fledged interference in the United States election.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I'm concerned about both. I'm concerned about both. But let me say this, Chuck, I just have to start, I totally disagree with your lead-in to this whole show today.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SENATOR ROGER WICKER:
I think the Washington punditry is somewhat in a bubble on this. I think the Democrats had a bad week --
CHUCK TODD:
Why is that?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- last week.
CHUCK TODD:
Why is that?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Well, okay, for one thing, the polls are turning in the president's favor. You've got the Marquette Poll in Wisconsin, which is the gold standard of Wisconsin polls. Then you've got the Emerson Poll, which is a nationwide poll, which actually shows Trump's favorability going up. And I just think the people out there don't think this investigation is fair. They know that only Democrat witnesses were allowed to be called. None of the witnesses --
CHUCK TODD:
That's not true. They made requests. Some of them were indeed called. There were some witnesses that Republicans requested that were called.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
And as a matter of fact, here's what happened. There were three witnesses that Democrats asked for and Republicans asked for. Those three witnesses --
CHUCK TODD:
Fair enough.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- got called. None of the witnesses that were exclusively called by the Republicans were asked. And you know, you asked the question about the whistleblower. And so, Chairman Schiff has decided that it wouldn't be beneficial to his case. Well, it might be beneficial if some of the Republicans were allowed to cross-examine this person. So, it's totally inadequate to say --
CHUCK TODD:
I understand you disagree with my premise. --
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- we already know --
CHUCK TODD:
-- Let me put up with Peggy Noonan said. She's no liberal the last time I checked and here's Peggy Noonan's take on this impeachment process. "As to impeachment itself, the case has been so clearly made you wonder what exactly the Senate will be left doing. How will they hold a lengthy trial with a case this clear? Who exactly will be the president's witnesses? Those who testify that he didn't do what he appears to have done and would never do it." Respond to Peggy Noonan on this.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Well, I just totally disagree with Peggy on that. And of course, she writes a column every week in the Wall Street Journal and it's not the first time I've disagreed.
CHUCK TODD:
Fair enough.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
But you know, again, let me go back to what the public is seeing. I do think the public is kind of tuning out, kind of bored with it --
CHUCK TODD:
I think, well, look --
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- and they don't think the system is fair.
CHUCK TODD:
-- there's a political argument and there's a legal argument. Do you -- let's set aside the political argument. Are you at all troubled by the behavior of the president, Rudy Giuliani, what was done here? The fact that he mentioned the Bidens, never talked about corruption on the phone call? Any of this stuff trouble you?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I think the phone call, and I read the transcript -- I went back and read it last night in preparation for this. I think the phone call was legitimately about corruption in Ukraine. Vice President Biden asked about corruption --
CHUCK TODD:
Well, let me pause there because here's what the president --
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- in Ukraine and had a right to do so.
CHUCK TODD:
Here's what the president said he wanted to see President Zelenskiy do in response to his phone call. This is the president's own words.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
Mr. President, what exactly did you hope Zelenskiy would do about the Bidens after your phone call? Exactly?
PRES. DONALD J. TRUMP:
Well, I would think that if they were honest about it, they'd start a major investigation into the Bidens.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
More confirmation he was asking about the Bidens, Senator, not corruption.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Well, okay, I --
CHUCK TODD:
He didn't mention corruption.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I just heard what the president said. Here's what Zelenskiy said. Zelenskiy said that he was under no pressure to do anything. He didn't even know the aid was being held up. And the aid --
CHUCK TODD:
You don't think he feels pressure not to disagree with President Trump right now in public? In fairness, do you think that would be a good idea of him if he disagreed with the president's take?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I think he's telling the truth and I think that, you know, if you're going to try to remove the president of the United States from office, you need concrete evidence. And, and the other person on the part of this so-called quid pro quo denies that there was a quid pro quo. And also, let me just, I have to interject this, everything that you felt was so compelling in your lead-up was guesswork, was hearsay. There was no direct evidence of pressure on the Ukrainian government to do a certain act in order for the aid to go forward. And I just, I really, I don't see what you and producers see in the lead-up there. I think it was a bad week and I think the American people are moving away from the Democratic position on this.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this. I want to play an excerpt from your support for Clinton's impeachment.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Okay. Good.
CHUCK TODD:
And let me play that.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REP. ROGER WICKER:
The rule of law means that the commander in chief of our armed forces could not be held to a lower standard than are his subordinates. The rule of law is more important than the tenure in office of any elected official.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
If you see proof in the Senate trial that this president of the United States violated the rule of law, would that be enough for you?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Well, I haven't -- I'm nowhere close to seeing that proof. Let me say this, we learned some political lessons in the impeachment of Bill Clinton, but give us this, there were Democrats who voted for impeachment also in the House of Representatives. And a judge in Arkansas had --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you regret that impeachment?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- found as, found as a matter of fact that President Bill Clinton had committed perjury, a felony in almost every state. So, the evidence was pretty overwhelming, not to mention the taking advantage of a young employee.
CHUCK TODD:
You have a lot of military bases. You have a lot of military constituents. I'm curious, we're going to have -- may have a large debate about this, who should decide who's a SEAL? The president of the United States or fellow SEALs? You're probably aware of the controversy involving this chief -- Chief Gallagher. Should the president short circuit this or not? Would you like to see the SEALs make this decision?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I think the president, as commander in chief, can make this decision.
CHUCK TODD:
He can legally make it. Should he though?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I think he -- I feel comfortable with him making it. I feel very comfortable with what he's done on the other two cases. So, I'm with him there, sorry.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. No, I'm just asking. Don't apologize to me. Senator Roger Wicker, Republican from Mississippi, thanks for coming on sharing your views.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Thank you.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source