Fox News "Sunday Morning Futures" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Lindsey Graham
Interview
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BARTIROMO: We will hear from House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy coming up in just a short time from now.
But, first, how are Senate Republicans preparing for what appears to be an inevitable impeachment trial coming up?
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Senator, it's good to have you on the program this morning. Thanks so much.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Thank you.
BARTIROMO: You have said on this program not too long ago that Hunter Biden needs to answer questions.
What is your reaction to this list that your colleagues in the House have prepared as far as those they would like to hear from?
GRAHAM: Oh, they could care less about getting to the truth, what really did happen. Why was the prosecutor fired?
The John Solomon FOIA request is pretty stunning. You can see efforts in the State Department where they were worried about the conflict of interests between Hunter Biden and this company that was being investigated.
And when the president of the company -- Burisma, I think, is the name of the company. When his house was raided in February, the Bidens kicked in. And we're going to look at that.
I consider any impeachment in the House that doesn't allow us to know who the whistle-blower is to be invalid, because without the whistle-blower complaint, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.
And I also see the need for Hunter Biden to be called to adequately defend the president. And if you don't do those two things, it's a complete joke.
BARTIROMO: Well, I mean, you mentioned the John Solomon reporting.
Let's talk about that for a second, because John Solomon reported this: "Testimony bombshell. Obama administration tried to partner with Hunter Biden's Ukrainian gas firm, but was blocked over corruption charges and concerns."
Basically, he writes that the State Department's main foreign aid agency, USAID, planned to co-sponsor a clean energy project with Burisma Holdings
Is what you're referring to?
GRAHAM: Yes.
I think the big deal is that Hunter Biden is serving on a board of a gas company that's being investigated by the Ukrainian government. In February, they raid the house of the guy who owns the gas company. Then you see a lot of interaction, with Joe Biden calling the president of the Ukraine.
Then you see meetings between Hunter Biden's business partner and John Kerry, and all of a sudden, the case goes away. I think it's important that we find that what really did happen regarding the firing of the prosecutor and what was the conflict of interest that Hunter Biden had.
But back to the whistle-blower, it's impossible to bring this case forward, in my view, fairly without us knowing who the whistle-blower is, and having a chance to cross-examine them about any biases that they may have.
So, if they don't call the whistle-blower in the House, this thing is dead on arrival in the Senate.
BARTIROMO: Well, I mean, just speaking of that whistle-blower, FOX News is not naming the whistle-blower. We are waiting for any confirmation there.
But others in the media have named this person as to be a person who worked for Joe Biden, who worked for John Brennan at the CIA, a CIA operative.
GRAHAM: Right.
BARTIROMO: Perhaps one of the people who dropped the bread crumbs back in 2016 that President Trump colluded with Russia, which was based on the dossier which Hillary Clinton paid for.
GRAHAM: Well, if the whistle-blower comes from the Brennan world, that would be pretty stunning, I think.
If the whistle-blower had a connection to a Democratic candidate, that would be pretty stunning. So the only way you can fairly deal with this issue is for us to find out who the whistle-blower is. No American can be accused of a crime based on an anonymous allegation.
The whistle-blower is foundational to what they're doing into the House. And the fact that they don't want to call him tells you everything they know -- everything you need to know about how valid this effort is to impeach the president.
It is impossible to conduct an impeachment inquiry when the chief complaining witness is unknown to the president, not subject to cross- examination.
BARTIROMO: Well, this is a really important point, because, for a long time, Adam Schiff said he wanted to speak to the whistle-blower. Then we found out that his staff actually did meet with the whistle-blower.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTIROMO: So now he doesn't want to speak to the whistle-blower in any of these hearings any longer.
GRAHAM: Yes.
Well, because what's going to happen, when you find out who the whistle- blower is, I'm confident you're going to find out it's somebody from the deep state. You're going to find out that they had interactions with Schiff. And this thing's going to stink to high heaven.
And the only reason we don't know who the whistle-blower is, that it hurts their cause. They're not trying to find the truth here. If you really wanted to know the truth about why Joe Biden said what he did about the prosecutor, if you don't fire this guy, we're going to cut off the money, well, let's find out, did his -- was Hunter Biden in the crosshairs of the prosecutor?
This is not about Schiff finding the truth. This is about Schiff trying to destroy the Trump presidency. Mueller looked at Trump, two years, $25 million, 40 FBI agents, and didn't find anything.
Now we got it in the hands of Schiff and Nadler. If you think Schiff is looking for the truth, you shouldn't be allowed to drive anywhere in America, because that's a ridiculous concept.
BARTIROMO: Well, you're making a really important point. And I want to make sure that our audience understands the way you're connecting the dots right here, because, for almost three years, this country was up in arms over the potential of Donald Trump colluding with the Russians.
GRAHAM: Right.
BARTIROMO: Now we are waiting on the John Durham now criminal investigation. We're waiting on the I.G. report to get to the details of exactly what transpired in 2016.
But many of these players that we're talking about when it comes to Ukraine are the same players that dropped those bread crumbs and try to spread a narrative of President Trump that was absolutely not true.
And that didn't stop the media from driving the bus on this and having this hysteria for two-and-a-half years of this president's administration.
One of the -- the people on the GOP list is Nellie Ohr, Senator, former contractor for Fusion GPS.
Why do you think she's on this list?
GRAHAM: Well, I think they were trying to find the connection between the whistle-blower complaint and what happened in 2016.
Here's what they don't want you to know. They don't want you to know that the whistle-blower was on the Brennan team, if he was. They don't want you to know that he's tied the people who falsely got a warrant against Carter Page four times.
They don't want you didn't know that he's tied to the group that set up a counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign in 2016. It would blow them out of the water if, in fact, the whistle-blower was connected to a Democratic candidate and came from the CIA world that's been trying to destroy the Trump presidency before he got elected.
That's why they don't want you to know who this person is.
BARTIROMO: Yes, which is why you have a resolution with 50 senators having signed it about the process of what has taken place.
Tell us about that resolution. And where's that going?
GRAHAM: Right.
Well, we looked at every other impeachment, the Nixon impeachment, the Clinton impeachment. And we found out that the president's counsel was allowed to cross-examine witnesses making accusations against the president. That's not allowed here.
The president's counsel cannot participate in the Intel Committee inquiries. It has been done behind closed doors. Everything afforded Nixon and Clinton has been denied Trump.
So this is the first time ever that impeachment has been driven by a member of Congress, rather than outside counsel. There was outside counsel in Nixon. There was outside counsel in Clinton. And Mueller was an outside counsel.
The first time in the history that we have had a partisan politician push impeachment. And the process in the House is way different than what happened in the past. And denying the Republicans the ability to trace the Hunter Biden conflict of interest storyline and deny them the ability to expose the whistle-blower, again, is basically denying the president the ability to defend himself.
And what are they hiding?
BARTIROMO: Yes.
So here, once again, we have public hearings supposed to be happening next week, but we still have an unfair process.
Senator, I want to take a quick break, but, when we come back, I want to zero in on you and why you haven't called anybody to testify yet. You have subpoena power. Everybody wants to know, will you call Hunter Biden? Will you call Nellie Ohr?
Much more with Senator Lindsey Graham when we come back, as well as House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy. Leader McCarthy is here talking about former Clinton advisers.
Plus, we will also talk with Clinton campaign adviser Mark Penn. He was with Bill and Hillary Clinton for a time. He is now talking about the left.
GOP Congressman Matt Gaetz is also here. Wait until you see that.
Follow me on Twitter @MariaBartiromo, @SundayFutures, and on Instagram.
Stay with us. We're looking ahead right here on "Sunday Morning Futures."
Back in a minute.
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BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
And I am back right now with Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham.
And, Mr. Chairman, there is a list in front of me of the people that the GOP want to call down to testify in these public hearings this upcoming week. They include Devon Archer, former board member of Burisma Holdings. They include Nellie Ohr, former contractor for Fusion GPS, as well as others, like Hunter Biden, former board member of Burisma Holders -- Holdings.
Are you planning on calling anyone to testify in front of your committee?
GRAHAM: Well, the person I'm going to call in front of my committee will be Horowitz, who investigated the FISA warrant abuse, the counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign.
This is all about the State Department. The Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate has jurisdiction over this.
But let me just say this. If the House Democrats refused to go down the road into looking into whether or not the reason the prosecutor was fired is because he's getting too close to Hunter Biden, and Joe Biden and his team stepped in, that is a legitimate inquiry.
And I'm hoping that Chairman Risch, if the House refuses to call Hunter Biden and other people related to that in the House, that we would call them in the Senate, because that may be the only place you hear the other side of the story.
BARTIROMO: So, in other words, if the House Democrats fail to do their job, you are going to do it? You are going to call these people down to Judiciary?
GRAHAM: Yes.
Well, no, I'm Foreign Relations. I don't have jurisdiction over the State Department. I'm not a committee that I can call anybody about anything. We actually have committees in the Senate for a reason, subject matter.
But here's what I do believe. It's impossible for the president to adequately defend himself unless we know more about why Hunter Biden was fired -- why the prosecutor was fired.
The president asked the Ukrainian president to look in corruption. Corruption is rampant in the Ukraine. I find it odd that the only person that Joe Biden wanted fired in all of Ukraine was the prosecutor who was investigating a company that his son served on the board.
That is very much relevant to the whole quid pro quo allegation against the president. And, to me, is there a quid pro quo in place where Joe Biden said, if you don't fire the prosecutor, you get no money? And was one of his motives to protect his son?
Somebody has to look at that. And if Adam Schiff will not allow House Republicans to look at that, then I think Senate Republicans need to make sure it is looked at.
BARTIROMO: I understand.
But, at the same time, there are similarities here to what we just came off of back in 2016. There are dots to be connected to the way that the president and his entire team was entrapped.
Are you going to call anybody? We still have the 2016 issue, which your colleagues on the left refuse to look at.
GRAHAM: Yes.
BARTIROMO: We know there was wrongdoing in terms of the FISA court, in terms of framing campaign people from the Trump campaign.
GRAHAM: Right.
BARTIROMO: Are you going to look to this? Are you going to call anybody regarding the 2016 origins of the Russia probe into your committee to testify?
GRAHAM: Yes, ma'am.
The person who's been assigned to look into whether or not the FISA warrant was properly obtained and whether or not that FISA court was basically defrauded is Mr. Horowitz, the inspector general of the Department of Justice.
He's been looking at this for over a year. He's also looking at whether or not the counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign was legitimate. He's looking at it internally.
John Durham is looking at the possibility of criminality when it comes to obtaining the warrant, criminality when it comes to the counterintelligence investigation.
My goal is to provide oversight. I promise you that Mr. Horowitz will come before the Judiciary Committee when his report is complete and testify in public, under oath, as to what happened.
Then I will start connecting the dots. If the whistle-blower is, in fact, part of the team that tried to get a warrant illegally in 2016, I think that would be a stunning revelation and may explain their motives in terms of why they filed the complaint to begin with.
BARTIROMO: Very important commentary that you're making right now.
Our viewers are frustrated with this I.G. report, Senator. Where is it?
GRAHAM: Yes, I get it.
BARTIROMO: When is it coming out?
GRAHAM: Well, it's...
BARTIROMO: You met with A.G. Barr.
GRAHAM: Yes.
BARTIROMO: What can you tell us about this investigation? Do you think he's going to get to the bottom of who framed Donald Trump?
GRAHAM: Well, I think he's -- I think Horowitz is going to give us a stunning report about the system being off the rails.
I'm not going to prejudge it. I talked to Barr Wednesday. The declassification issue has been resolved. Most of it's going to be declassified. I want the public to look at what happened, not trust my rendition of what happened.
Let's declassify all the applications for the warrants. Let's put it all out there to see, all the 302s, so you can make your own decision if Christopher Steele had a bias against Trump, if he was an unreliable person when it came to obtaining a warrant against the Trump campaign.
My goal is transparency, but I'm going to do this right. Horowitz is somebody outside of politics. He's going to testify first. He's going to have the time and the space to make the report the way he feels it needs to be made. And he will come before the American people and tell the story the way he needs to tell it.
Once he tells that story, then I will follow up and start connecting the dots to the whistle-blower, if there is any dots to be connected.
BARTIROMO: You know, I mean, the committee -- does your committee require the Democrats to agree to any subpoena?
Because this whole process of having to check with Adam Schiff is another thing that my viewers are outraged about. Tell me about that. Do you need a requirement from Adam Schiff or the Democrats to actually get a subpoena and bring somebody down?
GRAHAM: The Senate is a collaborative process, but I think I could do it by majority vote, if I had to.
But rather than me going out subpoenaing people based on news reports, I'm going to do it the old-fashioned way. I'm going to allow the guy who was tasked with looking into whether or not there was corruption regarding the FISA court and the intelligence community abused the Trump campaign through a counterintelligence investigation -- I'm going to hear from him first.
I'm going to build what I do off of Horowitz's investigation, rather than just running wild myself.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
GRAHAM: That way, I think it has legitimacy.
I think most Americans don't trust Schiff. There's a partisan atmosphere about this investigation. I think the House is going to flip to the Republican Party, because most people would rather solve problems than have yet another investigation of Donald Trump being driven by Adam Schiff.
BARTIROMO: Yes. Yes.
GRAHAM: So, what I'm going to do in the Senate is, I'm going to do it the right way.
BARTIROMO: All right, stay with us, Senator, because I want to ask you about this report that senators are going to be tuning out all next week.
Stay with us.
More with Lindsey Graham we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
I am back with Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham.
And, Mr. Chairman, a lot of your colleagues have called this process a sham. You have a resolution in place calling the process a sham going into these public hearings.
GRAHAM: Yes.
BARTIROMO: But there are now reports that you're not even going to look at it. You are going to completely tune out this upcoming week.
A number of your colleagues said that they won't watch the highly anticipated public hearings, that you will not look at the transcripts. Is that the answer?
GRAHAM: Yes, I think the whole thing is a joke. I don't want to legitimize what I think is a joke.
If you really wanted to find out whether or not the prosecutor was fired because he was getting too close to Hunter Biden, you would call Hunter Biden.
There's plenty of evidence in the State Department files that there was a conflict with Hunter Biden and the company being investigated by the Ukrainian prosecutor.
So you have got the special envoy to the Ukraine saying there was no quid pro quo. You have got selected leaking of information.
To the House Republicans, you have done a good job of trying to correct the record. I think the whole thing is being driven by a partisan, Adam Schiff. The president's counsel is shut out. We have never done impeachment this way.
So I think the whole thing is illegitimate. And if you do not inquire as to why Hunter -- what role Hunter Biden had in getting the prosecutor fired, then you are really not looking at all things Ukraine.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
Do you think the voters figure this out, sir? I mean, do you think that vote...
GRAHAM: Yes. Yes, I do.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTIROMO: We're heading into now an election year. Do the voters get this?
GRAHAM: To the 31 House Democrats who are serving in districts that Donald Trump holds, you're going to lose your job if you continue to play this game.
No president in the history of the country has been treated this way. We have never had an impeachment process set up this way before, where the Intel does it, not Judiciary. The president's counsel is shut out. You have got to get the blessing of Schiff before you can call witnesses.
The Senate will take up the cause when it comes to the Bidens if the House is shut out. But the reason this is going to blow up in their face, it's a never-ending effort to destroy Donald Trump.
Horowitz will be coming out soon. And if you don't find out who the whistle-blower is, the whole thing is illegitimate, because, without the whistle-blower...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
GRAHAM: ... knowing who they are, you really can't evaluate credibility of the entire accusation.
BARTIROMO: I want to pick it up right where you left off, Senator.
It's good to see you today. Thanks very much for joining us.
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