CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: "Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders"

Interview

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You got it, Wolf. Thank you.

And Senator Sanders, thank you. Thanks for having us in your home.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you for visiting us in Burlington.

GUPTA: It's a house call.

(LAUGHTER) GUPTA: We're going to -- we're going to talk about health.

But I do want to talk about the news Wolf was just talking about, two associates of Rudy Giuliani, who is the president -- who is President Trump's personal lawyer, arrested, indicted on campaign finance violations.

What do you make of that?

SANDERS: Nothing about Trump ever shocks me.

He is, I think, the most corrupt president in the modern history of America. I think he is a pathological liar who probably does not know the difference between truth and lies.

I don't think he understands the Constitution of the United States, and certainly not the rule of law. He was born with a lot of money. He is arrogant. He thinks he can do whatever he wants to do.

So, frankly, nothing shocks me.

GUPTA: One of the things you may know as well, Senator, that these two gentlemen were found at Dulles Airport with one-way tickets out of the country.

Pretty obvious what that means, right?

SANDERS: Yes, of course it's obvious what it means.

They wanted...

GUPTA: They were trying to leave the country and not come back.

SANDERS: Yes. Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: But, again, I think the impeachment process is going to unveil so many things about this administration that the American people have to know.

But the bottom line is, this is so clearly a president unfit to hold the highest office in this country.

GUPTA: It's good to be here with you, Senator.

And you look well. I want to talk specifically about what happened to you this past week.

I want to clarify something. You said that you misspoke yesterday when talking about changing the nature of your campaign, dialing it back, not doing four rallies a day anymore.

What did you mean? Did you misspeak, or are you going to dial it back?

[18:25:01]

SANDERS: Well, what I mean, is, probably, next week, I'm not going to do four rallies a day.

I think I have done more rallies than any other candidate who's currently running for president of the United States.

But I'm feeling great. And we're going to run a vigorous campaign. We're working on our schedule right now, which is going to take us to Iowa, to Nevada, probably back to New Hampshire. We're ready to go full blast.

GUPTA: You had had a doctor's appointment, I believe, this week and a follow-up appointment now back here in Vermont.

SANDERS: Right.

GUPTA: What did they tell you?

SANDERS: Well, the reason -- I have been blessed with such good health throughout my entire life.

To be honest with you, I have never gone to a cardiologist, I don't think, before this event. And I didn't have one here in Burlington. So we found a very good cardiologist. They did a -- they looked at my heart.

And what he says is, the recovery is going very, very well. And we look forward to a full recovery.

GUPTA: The...

SANDERS: Echocardiogram was what the...

GUPTA: Echocardiogram, which is an important test.

SANDERS: Yes.

GUPTA: An echocardiogram tells the function of the heart, how well the heart is beating, and it can also give some indication of how severe the heart attack was.

SANDERS: Right. Right.

GUPTA: What did they tell you?

SANDERS: Well, what they told me is that we're on the road to a full recovery.

There was some damage. But what happens is, as -- within the next month, we will see what happens, but so far, so very good.

GUPTA: There's a video of you actually swinging a baseball -- that was this morning -- swinging a bat.

SANDERS: Trying to keep up with my grandchildren. That is very exhausting, I must tell you.

GUPTA: It's almost a silly question to ask how you're feeling, because you said that you feel great.

SANDERS: Sanjay, the God's truth is that if you -- you sitting there, and you said, Bernie, did you have a heart attack last week, I would say, what are you talking about? I feel great. I -- not an ounce of pain.

I have been walking around a whole lot, playing ball with the kids. So I feel very good. And I'm confident that we're going to be running a very, very vigorous campaign.

But what I would say -- and I don't know if you wanted to talk about this -- is what I do kick myself a little bit about -- and I hope people understand this and hear this -- is that I should have paid more attention to some of the symptoms that were occurring.

When you do four rallies a day, and you run all over the country, you get tired. Everybody would get tired. But I was more tired than I usually have been, had more trouble sleeping than ordinarily.

Occasionally, I'd be up there at the podium, and I would feel a little bit unsteady.

And one time, I was just lifting, literally holding the mic up to my arm, and my arm hurt -- up to my mouth, and my arm hurt.

GUPTA: Really?

SANDERS: And I should have paid more attention to those symptoms.

So I hope that people learn from my mistake.

GUPTA: It's such an important point. The symptoms that you're describing may not be coming classic sort of symptoms about left arm pain. Some of the stuff were indicators.

In retrospect, how long had you had symptoms, Senator?

SANDERS: I think probably -- it's hard to say, because, as I said, when you're running around the country, and you're working hard, you're tired. Well, what else is new? You're going to be tired.

I would say several weeks anyhow. And I should have paid more attention to that.

GUPTA: They tell you you're having a heart attack. This is when you go into the clinic. This is Tuesday night.

SANDERS: Yes.

GUPTA: I mean, obviously, that's frightening. It's the worst kind of news.

SANDERS: Shocking. Shocking. GUPTA: Did -- I mean, did you think that this could be fatal?

SANDERS: No.

What I -- this is what I thought. First of all, we were driving, my staff and I. I was at an event. And I -- and I -- because I was speaking, and, for the first time in my life, I said to somebody, give me a chair. I have to sit down. And I was sweating profusely.

And, normally, we do selfies, and we take questions, and we have discussions. I was in no state to do that. And I felt badly for the people in the audience. But, essentially, I took a few very -- questions. I was very brief in my response. And I said to my staff, guys, we got to get out of here.

And my first thought was, let's go to the -- let's go to the -- back to the hotel. Then I started feeling...

GUPTA: You felt the pain.

SANDERS: ... a pain in my arm.

And we went to what was an urgent care place in Las Vegas near the hotel. And the doctor there diagnosed -- she made a diagnosis in about three seconds.

And then I went by ambulance to Desert Springs Hospital. And they had been warned that I was -- told that I was coming. And the procedure was done in about 45 minutes, I think.

GUPTA: So, it was pretty quick.

SANDERS: Very quick.

GUPTA: I mean, they were concerned.

I don't know, Senator, if you have ever seen this before. I went and took the liberty of actually finding a stent and a balloon. This is now -- you have two of these now in one of the blood vessels in your heart.

They use the balloon to sort of open it up. And there's the stent. Is that -- that strange to look at?

SANDERS: It is.

Well, it's not strange to look at. It's strange to know that it's in here somewhere.

GUPTA: It's in your body, but it's doing the job.

SANDERS: Look, who knows? There are some folks who think that I may be a little bit stronger because I will have an artery that's not blocked.

But what I have learned in the last week more about cardiology that I've ever wanted to know is that my understanding is many hundreds of thousands of people a year have this procedure.

GUPTA: How is this going to impact -- how are you going to balance the campaign and the follow-up visits and the things that you need to do now to keep your heart healthy?

SANDERS: Well, we have a great doctor in D.C. and we've made a new doctor friend here in Burlington, and the folks in Las Vegas were great as well. But we're going to play it by ear. But I am feeling great and look forward to a very vigorous campaign. I'll be at the debate next week.

GUPTA: You'll be there, yes. You said it was -- someone said that, Tuesday night, you knew that you had a heart attack. You waited until Friday to talk about it. You said it was nonsense. This wasn't a lack of transparency. What was it then? Was the intent that we are going to disclose this at some point or just not now?

SANDERS: Of course, we're -- of course, people do have a right to know about the health of a senator and somebody who is running for president of the United States, full disclosure. And we will make, at the appropriate time, all of our medical records public for you or anybody else who wants to see them.

But the first concern I think that people had was to understand what was going on before we're going to reveal information dribble-by- dribble. But we released -- we will release all the records.

GUPTA: You think this is a fair -- obviously, you're doing this interview with me, it's a fair conversation to be having about health, about age.

SANDERS: Of course, it is, absolutely.

And by the way, it's a fair conversation. People have a right to know how I'm feeling. But if I may at this moment just say thank you to so many people all over the country who have expressed their concerns and written us in so many ways with their love and concern. And I appreciate that.

GUPTA: Well, I'm glad to see you're doing well.

Senator, let me take a few minutes to ask you a few questions about the town hall tonight, the LGBTQ town hall. You can't be there, obviously.

SANDERS: Let me apologize to the Human Rights Organization for not being there, but I'm glad we have this opportunity (ph).

GUPTA: Thank you. You have been fighting for gay rights since the early 1970s. There's this picture of you actually from '63, I believe, in Chicago, a civil rights protest at that point. Has civil rights and gay rights, have they always been part of the same thing?

SANDERS: Yes, they are. I think the picture you're referring to is when I was a student at the University of Chicago. I was arrested for involvement in a demonstration against segregated housing in Chicago. I know I'm dating myself a little bit but I was there for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s speech on jobs and justice.

So the issue of justice, ending discrimination, is something that I've been involved in my whole life when I was mayor in Burlington, I was involved in it.

GUPTA: When you read the civil rights language, specifically at '64, it says, prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin. It doesn't say sexual orientation. How do you sort of reconcile that?

SANDERS: Well, I think we can argue what the intent is. What I will tell you, Sanjay, is I am very worried about the right wing in this country now using the argument of freedom of religion to force discrimination. We all believe in freedom of religion. We're all proud Americans, everybody has the right to practice their own religion.

But we cannot now use the argument that it is my religious belief that if you are gay, I will not sell you a cake, or I will -- if you are black, it is my religious belief you can't come into my store, if you're Jewish or, whatever. We've gone way, way beyond that. And it worries me very much that there is a strong movement trying to bring, under the guise of freedom of religion, racism, sexism and homophobia back into this country.

GUPTA: There are two arguments that are being heard in front of the Supreme Court this week, specifically about discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. If the Supreme Court doesn't rule in favor of the plaintiffs here, what could you do if you were president of the United States to offer those protections?

SANDERS: Everything that's humanly possible. If you think back on the history of our country, from the first settlers coming here and the terrible things they did to native Americans, we think about the atrocity of slavery, we think about the assaults on so many Asian expulsion acts, Asians who were thrown out of the country, the anti- Semitism, anti-Irish sentiment, the Italian sentiment, we have been through it all.

But what we should be proud of, as a nation, having gone through all of that, that we put so much of that behind us. Does racism exist now? Of course it does. But we've come a long, long way.

[18:35:01]

We elected something -- we elected an African-American as president of the United States, something that people 30 years ago never would have dreamed was possible. And it upsets me very much that Trump and some of his allies are trying to roll back the clock and take us to a place that we have gone far beyond.

GUPTA: And President Obama, as you talked about, signed an executive order prohibiting discrimination against federal workers. What would you do specifically though as president to offer protections to the population -- SANDERS: We would pass federal legislation that makes it clear, absolutely clear, that it is illegal to prohibit, to have discrimination against anybody because of their sexual orientation. That's clear. And it would be a very broad and sweeping legislation, at work and any other capacity of life.

GUPTA: Some of these things when we talk about -- they're all sort of based on this idea as well that it's still a Republican -- likely to be a Republican Senate. How does this work then? How do you get something like that through a Republican Senate?

SANDERS: I think, interestingly enough, while you have a small group of right wing folks who want to push this discriminatory agenda, the climate has changed so much in this country. We're sitting in Vermont now. Vermont has been a leader in gay rights. In fact, we were the first state to pass what was then called civil unions legislation, which was a precursor to gay marriage. And I can remember 25 years ago, 30 years ago, whatever, marching in brave (ph) with people who were really, really upset about this concept. It's all gone.

The younger generation, if you tell somebody, what's your view on gay marriage when they're 20 years of age, you know what, they don't know what you're talking about. They really don't. Their grandparents may be concerned but the world has changed very dramatically and in a good way.

So my administration will do everything humanly possible to fight homophobia, involving the gay community in that liberation as to how we go forward, fighting racism, sexism and the religious bigotry, by the way, that the Trump administration is forcing on us.

GUPTA: Some of it is so atrocious. According to HRC, 19 transgender people were killed this year. The American Medical Association calls it an epidemic. And we're talking about protections. I mean, we're talking about life and death situations. What about -- as president, what could you do to protect transgender population?

SANDERS: Well, first of all, we will make it clear that every transgender murder will be investigated by the Department of Justice as a severe hate crime. We will not tolerate that type of behavior.

And I think the good news is that the American people understand that, the American people want us to move away from this kind of vulgar, disgusting discrimination into a society where we treat people as human beings no matter the color of their skin, what their sexual orientation, whether they're transgender, whatever it may be. That is the goal that we have come to fight for.

And we have come a long way, and it breaks my heart, to see a president who is taking us in exactly the direction that we have overcome, that we've wanted to overcome.

GUPTA: Senator Sanders, I just want to ask, again, about your health. What are you doing differently now? Are you -- there're new medications, I imagine. Are you taking care of yourself differently in some way, diet? SANDERS: I am. Look, I won't tell you that I have been the worst either eater in the world but I surely was not the best. I did my best to stay away from junk food and so forth and so on. But we're going to do better. We're going to do better with food.

GUPTA: During this whole process, at any point, from last Tuesday, nine days now, was there any point when you said, you know what, I think the best course of action may be to drop out?

SANDERS: No. Because, you know, I don't know how -- again, you know, when you hear the word, heart attack, you think it was somebody lying on the ground in terrible pain. It wasn't the case, okay? The day I woke up after the procedure, no pain, zero pain. No pain right now. I feel really good.

So, you know, my feeling was, once I assessed the situation and learned what happened, that given that my whole life struggle, and I don't mean to be overly dramatic here, but I have spent my entire life trying to fight injustice, not only against homophobia but for workers rights, to create an environment that is not destroying our water and our air, to deal with climate change, all of those issues.

And we've had significant success in kind of transforming the dialogue in America. Many of the issues that I've talked about four years ago on how -- that were considered radical then and are kind of mainstream today.

[18:40:07]

Many of my Democratic opponents are saying today what I said four years ago.

So we've struggled really hard to get to where we are right now, bringing millions of people together if the fight together in the fight for justice. And I'm not a quitter. And I've had adversity. No question about it.

I do not want anybody to have a heart attack, not a good thing. But you know what, there are a lot of people watching this show right now who are dealing with adversity. Unlike me, they could not afford to get the healthcare that I got. I got really high quality healthcare. We haven't gotten the bill yet. But I have, you know, strong private insurance, I have Medicare, I'm sure my wife and I will be paying money out of pocket, we can afford to do that.

But what happens to somebody who is 63 and they felt the same pains that I felt, and they would be thinking, I'm feeling pretty crappy, but if I go to the doctor, if I go to the hospital and run up the bill by thousands of dollars, how am I going to pay for that, all right? Am I going to go bankrupt? Am I going to be able to put food on the table for my kids?

So one of the things that did occur to me, it's not a secret to any American that I believe that healthcare is a human right, that 50 miles away from here, in Canada, if you're in the hospital for three months dealing with cancer or whatever else, you leave that hospital without paying a nickel, because it is publicly financed.

But I think that this incident made me really think on a personal level what happens to people who don't have decent health insurance.

GUPTA: Well, I think -- yes, you said before that I think this incident has --sounds like it's reinforced that.

SANDERS: Exactly.

GUPTA: Senator Sanders, we're out of time. Thank you very much. I'm glad you're doing well.

SANDERS: Thank you so much.

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