MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: "Southeast bracing for Dorian's arrival."

Interview

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HAYES: Do you remember this weird thing that happened back in May when the Governor of Florida Ron DeSantis came out and said that the FBI and the Department Homeland Security told him that to county voting systems in his state of Florida have been compromised by Russian hackers in the 2016 presidential election. He came out and announced this but then said he could not tell the public which two counties were hit because he made a promise to the FBI. "I`m not allowed to name the counties. I signed a nondisclosure agreement. They asked me to sign it so I`m going to respect their wishes." That was weird and a lot of people thought the secrecy was odd including Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy who represents parts of Orlando. She also requested a briefing along with Republican colleague Congressman Michael Waltz on those attacks on Florida back in May. And today she has an op-ed in the Washington Post about -- written about what she learned and how there is much she is still not allowed to tell us. Joining me now is Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy, a Democrat from Florida. Let`s start with what was your reaction to being told that two counties have been penetrated by Russian hackers but you couldn`t know which? Like how did that scan to you?

REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): Well, they did tell me which counties they were once we asked for a briefing. But it took us three years from the moment that the Russian packed our elections in 2016 to the briefing that we had to request in order for the FBI and the Department of Justice to reveal to us that in fact two counties had been hacked in Florida. And now just as of a month or two ago with the Senate Intelligence Committee report, it appears that Florida might be state two. And in that report, it indicates that the number might be up to four counties that were hacked. You know, the drips and drabs of information that are coming out about this very serious attack on our democracy is not helpful in helping us prepare to respond to it.

HAYES: OK. So do we not know if it was two counties or four counties or someone knows and we just don`t know as the public? Is that right?

MURPHY: I, as an elected official still not certain based on the information I received from the briefing compared to the information that appears to be in the Senate report. But Chris, let me tell you why it`s so important that not only do we as officials know but also that the public knows. We are engaged in a different type of conflict. I used to work at the Pentagon under a Republican administration. And at that time, we were worried about kinetic warfare. But what we`re dealing with today is cyber aggression. It is information operations, information warfare. And the way that you combat information warfare is to be able to have a whole of society approach and that involves inoculating the public, giving them the tools so that they can discern what has happened, and then protect themselves against future attacks.

HAYES: Well, this is -- this is sort of gets to the nub of the issue, right? I mean, I`ve now read multiple reports and an official pronouncements that say something along the following, that Russian hackers probed all of the different systems, they were able to sort of penetrate and gain entrance into them and even possibly achieve the ability to change data but did not do any changing. And I guess my question is like are we a hundred percent sure about that last point? Is that a definitive thing that we know established? And even if it is how can you convince people that that`s the case if we don`t get more information?

MURPHY: The way you could probably convince people that their information wasn`t changed is to let the voters know which counties were affected and allow voters to go verify for themselves that their information wasn`t changed. We are watching the lack of information, the shroud of secrecy undermine our -- the voters confidence in our systems.

HAYES: What is the justification? What is your understanding of this somewhat strange arrangement that`s coming from the Trump administration vis-a-vis their protectiveness around this information that seems to me like it should be in the public domain?

MURPHY: The two reasons they give is one, to protect sources and methods, and then the other is that they view the victims to be the election officials. And let me just say that on the first reason. Sources and methods, the Russians know that we know which counties they hacked. So I`m not sure that releasing the name of those two counties to the voters would be revealing anything that our adversaries don`t already know. And then secondly on the issue about who is the victim. I think it`s wrong to see the election officials as the victims. The voters are the victim in this case. They`re the ones whose information has been accessed. And you know when it comes to their credit card information or their social media information, if their information has been breached there is a responsibility to notify. And yet here, in this case, there seems to be no accountability or a sense of responsibility to notify voters.

HAYES: So it`s -- on the final point here. The counties themselves know if they have been penetrated, correct?

MURPHY: That`s correct.

HAYES: OK. Are you confident that all counties that have been penetrated across the country or all systems know A, and B that the necessary steps have been taken on election security grounds or cybersecurity grounds to make sure that can`t happen again?

MURPHY: I think we need greater transparency and oversight -- congressional oversight to ensure that we are -- we know that everybody -- the full extent of the interference in 2016, what defenses have been put up by those local election officials to prevent this from happening in the future. And then also there needs be -- to be a broader public understanding that we are under constant attack, that we are engaged in an information war with aggressors like Russia and that what there are things that as individuals we can do to protect ourselves against these attacks.

HAYES: All right, Congressman is Stephanie Murphy from the State of Florida, thank you so much for making time.

MURPHY: Thanks for having me.

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