NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now, from Greenville, South Carolina, is the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, the man that's likely leading most of this investigation, Democrat Adam Schiff of California. Congressman, welcome back to Meet the Press.
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
Thank you. Great to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with the whistleblower's complaint. It does feel as if it is your roadmap. I think you have said, "It's the roadmap for the investigation." How much of your investigation is about the specifics of what the president did with the aid, with Ukraine, with Rudy Giuliani? And how much of your investigation is about the attempt to keep that from you?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, I think, really, the gravamen of the offense here is the president using the power of his office to coerce a foreign nation into helping his presidential campaign, to once again, interfere in our election and, at the same time, withholding foreign aid that that country so desperately needs to fight off who? The Russians. That, to me, is the most serious constellation of issues. And I know that many people have suggested, and it may have been true in the past, that the cover-up is the bigger crime. Sometimes, the cover-up is the easier crime to prove. But here, yes, the cover-up is very serious. But I don't want to lose sight of that fundamental breach of the president's oath of office, the duty to defend our country, our Constitution. And here, the president is, once again, not just inviting but coercing a foreign nation to get involved, to try to help him in yet another presidential election. So to me, that's the most-serious set of offenses.
CHUCK TODD:
In order to get the full picture, you're going to have to get the testimony of, apparently, quite a few White House officials. They're unnamed in the whistleblower report. Do you expect to end up fighting over things like executive privilege and attorney client privilege to the point that you may not get all the facts?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
I have to expect that they're going to fight us tooth and nail. But we're going to start. We have a hearing on Friday, for example, a closed session with the inspector general. This is the second time we're bringing, we're bringing him in, now that we have the whistleblower complaint, to go through what steps that he took to corroborate the information in the complaint, what witnesses that he spoke with, so that we can follow up with those witnesses ourselves. Will the White House fight us on this? I have to imagine they're going to fight us tooth and nail. And yet, even as they do, the more that they fight to try to prevent and obstruct the lawful functions of Congress, the more they're going to make a case for impeachment on obstruction of justice, of Congress, of the rule of law.
CHUCK TODD:
Is that the point? Is that why you put that in your release, that basically, you're, you're going to take any attempt at preventing somebody from testifying before your committee that you believe legitimately has some information to shed light on what happened, you will treat that as an obstruction of justice?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
We will treat that as evidence of obstruction of justice, as evidence of obstructing the lawful functions of Congress. Because the president can't have it both ways. He can't both prevent us from getting evidence on these serious, underlying crimes or potential crimes, this serious breach of his oath of office, and at the same time, obstruct our investigation. So even as he tries to weaken our ability to get facts on one, he's going to strengthen the facts on the other.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you know the whistleblower yet?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
I don't.
CHUCK TODD:
Have you met them?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
I don't know the-- No, no.
CHUCK TODD:
No. Ok. Do you, when do you expect-- First of all, do you expect the whistleblower to testify? And if so, when?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
Yes, and I hope very soon. Excuse me. And I hope very soon. All that needs to be done, at this point, is to make sure that the attorneys that represent the whistleblower get the clearances that they need to be able to accompany the whistleblower to testimony, and that we figure out the logistics to make sure that we protect the identity of the whistleblower. That's our paramount concern here. This whistleblower has done, obviously, a cardinal service to the country by exposing wrongdoing of the most serious kind, a breach of the president's duty to the country that endangers our security. And he's got to be worried about his own security right now, with the president issuing threats like he did the other day.
CHUCK TODD:
Your committee has seen material end up in the White House before, end up with the president's team before. Are you confident that your committee can protect the identity, everybody in your committee, on both sides of the aisle, can protect the identity of this whistleblower from, from the ire of the president?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, I'm certainly going to do everything humanly possible, as chair, to make sure that that's what happens. And yes, we have been concerned, for some time, about back channels between our now minority and the White House and, in fact, maybe even front channels, not just back channels. This is serious business here. The president has suggested that people like this whistleblower should be treated the way that we used to treat spies and traitors. And we used to execute spies and traitors. There's no messing around here. And what's more, we want to protect this whistleblower, but we also want to encourage others that are aware of this wrongdoing or other wrongdoing--
CHUCK TODD:
Ok.
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
--to come forward. And that's a vital interest of ours, as well.
CHUCK TODD:
There are three phone calls, excuse me, two phone calls and one meeting that the president has had with Vladimir Putin. Actually, all of them have taken place since the election of the Ukrainian president, Zelensky, a phone call on May 3rd, a meeting on June 28th, and a phone call on July 31st, which, by the way, six days after the Zelensky phone call in question. Do you think you'll ever know the contents of that-- of any of those conversations?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
I certainly hope that we can find out. And again, the paramount need here is to protect the national security of the United States and see whether, in the conversations with other world leaders and, in particular, with Putin, that the president was also undermining our security in a way that he thought would personally benefit his campaign. If those conversations with Putin or with other world leaders are sequestered in that same electronic file that is meant for covert action, not meant for this, if there's an effort to hide those and cover those up, yes, we're determined to find out.
CHUCK TODD:
The-- if you're trying to be speedy with this investigation while also being thorough, is there a point where you just have to, you have to wrap things up, you have to be done with whatever you can investigate by a date certain? I keep hearing the word, Thanksgiving, thrown around. Is that, is that the timetable the public should expect?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
We haven't set a timetable, except that we want to do this as urgently as possible. We also recognize, though, the gravity of this situation and that it's going to take some time to get the full facts and be able to flesh them out. Chuck, I will say this, having worked on investigations, as a prosecutor, before I was in Congress, there is a natural rhythm to an investigation. And you get to waypoints, where the next increment of evidence you're going to get may take quite a bit of time. And when we get to those waypoints, we're going to have to make a decision. Do we need to have a consensus now about where we are and what this means and whether we need to travel down the road of articles of impeachment? Or do we have time to do more work?
CHUCK TODD:
I'm curious what you think of the argument that says, no matter where you are on impeachment, especially if you are there, if you think the president should be thrown out of office, that because we're so close to November of 2020, that the election is the better place for that to happen. What do you say to those making that argument?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
You know, Chuck, I was making that argument myself until these facts came to light, that this is an extraordinary remedy. It should only be used in extraordinary circumstances. But here, what the president has done is such, of such an egregious character that there's a real risk in not moving forward with an impeachment. And I think, when you look at the fact that the president engaged in this corrupt conduct with President Zelensky, corrupt on the president's part, not on Zelensky's part, the day after the Mueller hearing, the lesson this president appears to have received is that he can do whatever he wants. He can violate his oath of office. He can refuse to defend our Constitution. He can invite further foreign interference in our affairs. He can try to cover it up. And there'll be no consequence, no accountability. And that is simply too dangerous to be left that way. And so yes, I certainly think that the gravity of the situation demands that we move forward with the inquiry.
CHUCK TODD:
Ok.
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
And, and we'll have to determine whether that also means return of articles.
CHUCK TODD:
Are we expecting to see Rudy Giuliani testify?
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
I don't want to commit myself to that at this point. We certainly need to do a lot of work to find out what Giuliani has been doing in Ukraine. It appears, from that conversation, that the Ukraine president understood what was going to be asked of him on that call. And that very likely was the result of work that Rudy Giuliani and some of his minions were doing in Ukraine. So we're going to need to get to the bottom of it. Whether it will be productive to bring him in, we'll make that decision down the road.
CHUCK TODD:
Congressman Adam Schiff, the man that's going to be charged with leading most of this investigation on the House Intelligence Committee, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Much appreciated.
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF:
Thanks, Chuck.
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