NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Pat Toomey

Interview

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CHUCK TODD:

And joining me now is Republican Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania. Senator Toomey, welcome back to Meet the Press.

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

Morning, Chuck. Thanks for having me.

CHUCK TODD:

As I said, I invoked your name there. We will get to the gun issue in a second. I want to ask you about the top story we've been dealing with this morning. The president has actually already commented again, as he's headed down to Texas for that event with the prime minister of India. And he is admitting that he did bring up Joe Biden in the phone call with the president of Ukraine. Does this look like a president asking for foreign assistance for his presidential prospects?

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

It's very hard to say, Chuck. I don't, I don't know what the conversation was --

CHUCK TODD:

I just told you. He said he did bring up corruption and Biden --

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

-- I think it could be spun that way.

CHUCK TODD:

-- I mean, was that appropriate under any level?

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

Yeah, again, I don't know the context. I don't know what was said. Look, it is not appropriate for any candidate for federal office, certainly, including a sitting president, to ask for assistance from a foreign country. That's not appropriate. But I don't know that that's what happened here.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think Congress should get its hands on this whistleblower complaint?

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

Well, as you know, this is an example -- recent example of cases that have gone back from the beginning of the republic of the tension between the executive over private conversations versus Congress' obligations and responsibilities for oversight. So what I think ought to happen here is what happens, typically, in these cases. You get some kind of negotiated agreement, whereby the administration shares what they think is not a -- doesn't need to be protected for national security purposes. It satisfies the members of the intelligence committees and allows us to determine whether this is something that really requires further investigation or not. I mean, at this point, we don't know anything. We're getting a bunch of leaked rumors. And that's all we have.

CHUCK TODD:

Are you at all concerned, though, that aid was delayed for as long as it was, and now, at the same time, we're finding out -- there was a second track of conversation going on while this aid was being delayed? Does that all concern you enough to say, "You know what? It is Congress' responsibility to look into this"?

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

So we should find out why that was the case. Now, we also know that we have a president who's always been very skeptical about U.S. foreign aid to almost any country. So there might be a reasonable explanation for this. And there might be a troublesome one. And we should, we should understand why that happened.

CHUCK TODD:

But you do think Congress should be looking into this in any way, shape, or form, at some point, that this is their job, to figure out -- I mean, you guys appropriated the money. I would assume you'd want to figure out why it was delayed and why Rudy Giuliani may or may not have been involved with it.

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

I certainly would want to know whether the law was followed, whether the president was exercising the discretion he actually has and for what reasons, if there were delays. I don't know the relevance of Rudy Giuliani. He's not part of this administration. But we certainly should understand how the funds that have been appropriated end up getting delivered.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think Rudy Giuliani's role has been important? Apparently, the State Department set up one of the meetings.

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

I'm not aware of that.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, let me move to the issue that I was discussing there, at the end, with Senator Murphy. The last time there was a vote on your bill, on Manchin-Toomey, was in 2015. Sadly, and you know this already, I think, five of the ten deadliest mass shootings have taken place since then: Vegas, Orlando, Sutherland Springs, El Paso, Parkland. I don't have to say anything other than those names. You're very aware of it. Is this, now, the time? You say it is. It's stunning to me what has happened in the last four years, when you look at it from that, from that perspective.

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

It is stunning, Chuck. And of course, I'm making an all-out effort to get our legislation passed. I will have to acknowledge that it's not clear that, had Manchin-Toomey been law, that any one of those particular shootings would've been prevented, although I think the shooting in Odessa might have been blocked, had Manchin-Toomey been law. But look, I think there's momentum now that we didn't have before. We have Republican senators who are reconsidering the whole issue of expanding background checks to commercial sales, which is all we're talking about here. And we've got a Republican president who's very interested and personally engaged. So I don't know how this is going to turn out. But I'm hopeful, and I'm going to keep pushing.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to put up some quotes here. It seems to me, there's a whole bunch of your Republican colleagues who are, essentially, saying, "I'm not going to tell you where I stand until the president says where he stands." Let me put up some of these quotes. Roy Blunt, "This does not go anywhere, unless we explicitly know what the president's willing to do." Chuck Grassley, "We aren't going to do anything that the president isn't going to sign, anyway." John Thune, "In the end, Trump is going to have to make a hard decision." You know, this is a -- I mean, you guys are playing a game of chicken here, a little bit. At what point do you need to force the president's hand and pass something?

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

Well, the problem is, if we attempt to force the president's hand and pass something, it might very well not pass, right? Having the president onboard would make all the difference. And part of it, Chuck, is the president has a unique bully pulpit. He can explain what this is. Expanding background checks to commercial sales is very widely supported, even among gun-owners and NRA members. Part of the problem we've always had is the mischaracterization of the legislation. The president can uniquely cut through that, make it clear what this is really about. I think we'd have a big collective sigh of relief from pro-Second-Amendment people, which I consider myself one of them. And then we could pass something really meaningful.

CHUCK TODD:

How much has Senator Mike Braun's argument carried the day with some skeptical Republicans? He's been making an interesting case, essentially, for your bill, not quite saying it that way. But if you don't do what he calls common-sense reforms now, and another five years goes by, like has happened, with no movement since the last time there was a vote on your legislation, and that suddenly, it won't be just background checks that has popular support.

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

Look, it's a strong point. I'm not sure quite how much it's persuading people. But I can tell you that a number of Republican senators are open to this who were not in the past. I do think that Beto O'Rourke does not help things, when he advertises that his real plan is to confiscate guns. That's not helpful to this conversation. But the attorney general has been very constructive, very helpful. The president's engaged. We've got broader interest among Republican senators than we've ever had.

CHUCK TODD:

One quick question on Iran. Does the president have the authority to strike Iran right now? Or do you believe he has to come to Congress?

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

So first of all, I think it's extremely unlikely that we would have a unilateral strike, by the United States, against Iran. And by the way, the sanctions are working very, very well. And this next round is likely to be devastating to the Iranian economy. I do think that it's essential that we reestablish deterrence. And the Iranians have been demonstrating, recently, that they don't feel very deterred. I would prefer that be led by a coalition, probably, of Arab Gulf states, probably, with U.S. support. And that, I think, the president has full authority to do, as commander in chief.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, Senator Pat Toomey, Republican from Pennsylvania, much appreciate you coming on and sharing your views, sir.

SENATOR PAT TOOMEY:

Thanks for having me, Chuck.

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