MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: "Colt suspends production of AR-15."

Interview

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MADDOW: House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff today quoting the intelligence community`s inspector general about this whistleblower complaint, which is now consuming Washington, right? It`s a complaint that reportedly concerns President Trump. The Trump administration is basically refusing to treat the complaint as if it is a whistleblower complaint under law which means they are not protecting the whistleblower from potential retaliation or even prosecution here. They`re also refusing to hand the complaint over to Congress which whistleblower law requires. Congressman Schiff joins us now live. Mr. Chairman, it`s really good to have you with us tonight. I know it`s a very busy time.

SCHIFF: Thanks for having me.

MADDOW: We just spoke with Shane Harris of the "Washington Post" about their new reporting that this whistle-blower complaint may center on the nation of Ukraine, combined with earlier reporting from "The Post" and another others that might suggest this complaint has something to do with presidential communication with a foreign leader, potentially with the president of Ukraine, something else having to do with that country. Just have to ask you, as the chairman of the intelligence committee, does that jive at all with what you know? Do you have any further information about the nature of the complaint?

SCHIFF: You know, I can`t comment completely in answer to the question. We haven`t received the complaint. Some of what we`ve been able to determine has been based on what the inspector general and the director of national intelligence have told us, and divining sort of between the lines. But I can tell you this with certainty, and that is the inspector general found this complaint to be credible after doing an investigation. Found it to be urgent and found something else which has not really been focused on and that is that this does not involve a policy disagreement. So, a lot of people have been speculating, does this involve a presidential communication, does it not, and if it does, doesn`t the president have a right to be confidential? This doesn`t involve some policy disagreement. This involves an allegation of serious wrongdoing. Something that the inspector general felt needed to be presented to Congress, was squarely within the jurisdiction of the director of national intelligence, and it is unprecedented for a director to withhold that information from Congress and I just want to say what`s at stake here, and why this is so serious for us. The intelligence committee in both House and Senate do their work in closed session because we`re dealing with classified information, but the result of that is outside stakeholders don`t get to weigh in, don`t get to correct the record, don`t get to say that the intelligence agency representation on this isn`t accurate. We rely on the agencies to self-report when they have problems. And much of the time, they do. But when they don`t, we are totally reliant on whistle-blowers which means if you can nullify that process, which the Department of Justice is effectively doing, it means the ability to do oversight is just crippled. And it means that serious problems, urgent problems that affect our national security, go unaddressed like this one, and it means that other whistleblowers who are watching -- I want to say to the whistleblower if the whistleblower is watching you tonight, that we are grateful for their courage in coming forward. We`re going to do everything we can to make sure this urgent issue is addressed and you`re protected.

MADDOW: If this whistle-blower whether or not he or she is watching tonight, if you are, hi -- if this whistle-blower does want to come directly to your committee and to the Senate Intelligence Committee, because the Trump administration is otherwise trying to throttle this at the level of the DNI, when I look at the comments of the inspector general, and I`ve been reading transcripts of your own remarks on this today, reading them closely trying to figure these out, it seems to me like the whistle-blower should be able to legally and securely come to you directly with his or her complaint provided that sort of channel for them to legally do so is open. Is that channel available to them, is there a way you can directly tell the whistle-blower on TV tonight, here`s how you reach me, here`s how you connect legally with our committee?

SCHIFF: Look, we would love to talk with the whistleblower directly. And it was certainly our expectation when we wrote this statute that there would be an opportunity for anyone in the I.C. to come to the committee and expose wrongdoing, and that`s always been the case because whistleblower complaints, even when they were found not credible, even when they were found not urgent, were referred to our committee and the whistleblower was told you can talk to the committee. Here, the director is refusing to tell the whistleblower that. In fact, the Department of Justice is effectively telling the whistleblower you are not covered.

MADDOW: Yes.

SCHIFF: Which means there is a real risk even in coming to Congress and that is obviously a supreme problem. I would love to be able to say that the president won`t be vindictive, that the Justice Department won`t be vindictive but I can`t make that assurance if the Department of Justice is taking the position you`re not covered. And, you know, the people who do come forward, they`re assured that if they do, their complaint will get to Congress. And so, a lot is riding on this if those promises are hollow, then it means these important sources of information about wrongdoing are going to dry up.

MADDOW: Congressman Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee -- sir, thank you so much for your time tonight. I know this is an ongoing fast-developing story. We`d love to have you back whenever we`ve got further developments to talk about, sir.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

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