CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Ron Johnson
Interview
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BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Dana Bash.
President Trump's racist attacks this week on four Democratic congresswomen came as he is already campaigning for a reelection bid, which begs the question, is this controversy helping President Trump with those key swing state voters?
Well, joining me now is a senator from one of those swing states that President Trump won in 2016, Wisconsin Republican Ron Johnson, who is chairman of the Homeland Security Committee.
Thank you so much for joining me this morning.
Senator, I have to start by asking you about President Trump's tweet just this morning continuing his attacks on those progressive congresswomen. Here's what he tweeted in part: "I don't believe the four
congresswomen are capable of loving our country."
Do you agree with the president that they are not capable of loving the United States?
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Good morning, Dana.
You know, I would say, in general, the whole America love-it-or-leave it is not -- not a new sentiment. Back in the '60s, that wasn't considered racist.
I just find it very unfortunate that so many parts of our public debate right now are getting immediately stuck inside a racial framework, when what I would like to see is us moving toward that colorblind society.
And I was hoping, when President Obama was elected, it would really go a long way toward healing the racial divide, so we can concentrate on these enormous challenges facing this nation, where we really could embrace Dr. King's sentiment that let's judge people on the basis of the content of their character, rather than the color of their skin.
BASH: So...
JOHNSON: So I would like to see everybody -- I would like to see everybody reduce the rhetoric, and let's start dealing with these enormous challenges facing this nation in a good-faith effort.
Dana, I truly believe that Americans, by and large, all have the same goal in mind. We all want a safe, prosperous and secure America. Let's concentrate on those shared goals and let's start tackling some of these problems.
[09:20:09]
BASH: Fair point.
But when the president of the United States tweets, first last week, "Send them back," which, for people like you and me, maybe it doesn't hit a -- hit a chord and strike a nerve, but, for people of color, it does, because many of them have heard that in their communities in a very negative way, still, even in 2019.
So, given that, and today saying that they are incapable of loving this country, how is the president doing -- practicing what you just preached?
JOHNSON: Well, again, I understand people not liking to hear that.
And, again, I would like to see everybody tone down the rhetoric and start concentrating on the big problem.
So what I'd prefer is, we start talking about these enormous challenges. You have been down to the border. You understand the overwhelming nature of that crisis. Let's start focusing on that, which, by the way, I'm doing it.
BASH: I...
JOHNSON: You had Cory Booker on.
BASH: Yes.
JOHNSON: I'm a co-sponsor with him on the Fair Chance Act.
We voted in the FIRST STEP Act. Those were things that President Trump championed. So let's concentrate on the problems and let's start looking at some nonpartisan solutions.
BASH: I have a lot of questions about issues, but I just feel like, because this is the president of the United States, the leader of your party, who won your state with votes from your constituents, I just -- it's incumbent, I think, upon me, and maybe you, to be more clear.
Do you disavow his statements last week and this morning, or not? And then we're going to move on.
JOHNSON: Yes, well, again, the president did not like the chant. I didn't like the chant.
BASH: What about incapable of being...
JOHNSON: And so, hopefully, there won't be another crowd in one of those rallies that do that.
BASH: What about his tweet this morning saying they're not capable of loving the country?
JOHNSON: I mean, that's his opinion. I don't agree with it.
BASH: OK. All right.
So let's move on to talk about some of the big issues, including international issues.
Iran seized two British tankers -- British tanker ships, rather, this morning in the Strait of Hormuz on -- and this -- on Friday, this happened. They're still holding one of those ships captive now.
And this comes as the U.S., according to CNN reporting, is looking at possibly being more hawkish in tone towards Iran.
So, you chair the Homeland Security Committee. You sit on the Foreign Relations Committee. Is the U.S. headed closer to war with Iran?
JOHNSON: I hope not.
But let's face it. Iran has been a malign influence, the largest state sponsor of terror since its founding back in the late '70s. You go down the list of the Beirut bombing, or the IEDs they supplied in the Iraq War, their involvement in Syria and Yemen. That is why we were so opposed to the Iranian agreement, because it
pushed -- it allowed hundreds of -- more than $100 billion of money to flow into the economy and the military of the largest state sponsor of terror.
And, by the way, as you see as they have increased their enrichment of uranium, it did nothing to stop their nuclear weapon program. So, again, I think Iran is playing a very, very dangerous game. It makes no sense that they would go after the U.K. I think they were trying to divide the U.S. from our friends and allies.
They're just uniting us in hopefully standing up to Iran once and for all, demanding they never have a nuclear weapon, and to end their missile -- their ballistic missile technology and their malign sponsor of terrorism around the region and around the world.
BASH: Let's talk about the border.
You, as Homeland Security chair, I know you have been working very hard to come up with a bipartisan solution to the crisis there, the humanitarian crisis and the whole crisis overall currently.
Are you any closer to that, as you're talking to your Democratic colleagues behind the scenes?
JOHNSON: Well, I think we took a good step, but it's just a baby step, in signing a letter of support for Operation Safe Return, where we rapidly and more accurately determine those families that clearly don't have even a credible claim, and safely -- and I underline safely -- return those individuals back to the safe zones of Central America.
Now, again, it's a first step. But, Dana, you understand the overwhelming nature of the problem. I sent you that chart and your jaw dropped.
I mean, since -- since 2014 -- and that was the humanitarian crisis year, when President Obama declared it a humanitarian crisis, when 120,000 unaccompanied children, but primarily people coming as a family unit, entered this country legally -- we have had 1,148,000, unaccompanied children and family members enter this country illegally, been apprehended, and they have been dispersed all over America.
It's overwhelmed our adjudication system. We have only removed about 12,000 of that -- of about 820,000 family members. That's about 1.5 percent. So it -- that creates a huge incentive for more people.
There's a survey done in Guatemala. A third of Guatemalans intend to migrate to the United States. That's about 5.8 million people. Depopulating Guatemala and Central America, that's not good for Central America. It's not good for us.
[09:25:01]
So there are so many components to this issue, this problem, the destroyed public institutions because of the drug cartels, because of our insatiable demand for drugs, I mean, the fact that we create these huge incentives and pull factors on a broken system.
BASH: We have -- we have a...
JOHNSON: So -- go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: So, I'm trying to work with my Democratic colleagues to fix it.
BASH: OK. So there's a multitiered, multilayered, very complex problem, which has been going on and has reached new heights in recent months.
But to figure that out, you have to have people who are willing to take a political hit from their own party and talk to people on the other side of the aisle. Is that going to happen?
JOHNSON: Well, I had three Democrats join in the letter. And that was Doug Jones and Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, really kind of led that effort. But I was really working very closely with my ranking member, Gary Peters. Tom Carper called me, wanted to be constructive.
So I think there is goodwill in the Senate to try and fix this problem, but all the components. I mean, what do you do with the eight million people in this country documented that are in the work force? You have the dreamers. What do you do with the 1.1 -- 1.1, 1.2 million people who have come in since 2012 DACA, as a part of the family unit?
Nobody's talking about, what do we do with those individuals? So this is an enormous challenge. What do you do to help create development in Central America, so people don't feel that they want to move to America, basically economic migrants, which is not a valid asylum claim?
So, again, we could spend this entire program and barely scratch the surface of all the complexity of this problem. But we have to start, from my standpoint, reduce that flow of people coming to this country, exploiting our broken asylum system. Focus on that, while we certainly try and help Central America.
BASH: Well, you gave viewers, I think, a glimmer of hope that there is actually conversation being had between conservatives like you and some -- maybe some moderate Democrats and even some more liberals to try to get beyond the politics and fix the crisis.
Thank you so much, Senator. Appreciate it.
JOHNSON: Have a great day.
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