NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Ron Johnson
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Thank you. Now, joining me from the other side of the aisle in the United States Senate, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. He's chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. Senator Johnson, welcome back to the show, sir.
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
Good morning, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with the vice president's visit with some Senate Republicans down to a couple of centers there. One of them, the pool reporter traveling with the vice president described a horrendous stench when they walked into the facility. The vice president himself said this was tough. We've heard a lot more Republicans acknowledge the conditions here in these facilities are just unsustainable. Okay, where do we go from here? Are you comfortable with this situation?
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
Oh, absolutely not, which is why I was supporting the emergency funding measure for months before Democrats finally decided to cooperate and grant the $4.6 billion, or vote for the $4.6 billion in funding. So that's just a first step. But Chuck, the problem is the uncontrolled, the overwhelming flow of people coming into this country illegally. In May alone, it was 4,600 people per day. It came down a little bit in June to about 3,500 people per day. But on average it's been over 2,800 people per day for this fiscal year. So again, let me put this in context. Since 2014, that was the humanitarian crisis here, when -- that President Obama called a humanitarian crisis, when 120,000 people came into this country illegally, either as an unaccompanied child but primarily as part of a family. Since 2014, the last five years, nine months, 1,086,000 people have come in as unaccompanied child or primarily as a family unit and have been apprehended. 1,086,000 people, about half of those who have come in in the last nine months alone. So it's overwhelming our system. And the goal of our policy should be to reduce that flow, turn it into a legal process. There's a number of things we can do. One of the things we have to do is we have to raise that initial bar in terms of claiming asylum, hopefully set up centers in Guatemala, in Central America, so people can claim refugee status. But this is completely out of control.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, Senator, there seems to be that enforcement -- there's an argument now that the extra enforcement measures, the get tough measures the president has tried is actually encouraging more migration. Let me read you a clip here from Ricardo Salinas.He writes this: "The people of Central America are left with a stark choice, endure growing instability, poverty, and intensifying violence as part of the failed drug war, or flee now before the border is closed completely. The rapidly rising numbers of families and unaccompanied minors who are willing to risk their lives to make the perilous journey north, even knowing that detention and separation await, speak of the increasing desperation." I mean, this seems to be -- we're talking about the border when the real core of the problem we're doing nothing about, if anything the president took money away from Central America.
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
Well, first of all, Chuck, yeah, there is some short-term detention. But we are in full catch and release. I mean, people aren't being detained for much more than, at most, probably a couple weeks. So we are in full catch and release. There some a survey done by the Association of Research and Social Studies in Guatemala that said that a third of Guatemalans intended to migrate to the United States. That's almost six million people. A Gallup poll showed 158 million people worldwide, 42 million people in Central -- in Latin America, want to migrate to the United States. We can't take all-comers. We have to have a legal system, primarily designed toward working with our economy to get people in here to work so we can continue to grow our economy. This is completely out of control. So again, the goal of our policy should be to reduce the flow of people coming into this country illegally and turn that into legal flow.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that, but you don't believe coming up with some sort of better, a Marshall Plan for Central America, might actually be the best way to decrease the flow?
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
Well, that is a very long-term solution. You have our insatiable demand for drugs that has given rise to drug cartels, done great harm to the public institutions of Central America. There's no doubt about it, we bear responsibility. But that's not going to fix this problem in the here and now anytime soon. I certainly would want to see money flow to make sure that we can safely return people. I'm working with Democrat colleagues on a pilot program called Operation Safe Return where we can rapidly and more accurately determine those families that clearly don't have a valid asylum claim, and the majority of them don't have a valid asylum claim, and safely return them to Central America. That will require some U.S. funding as well. There are also humanitarian organizations that are willing to facilitate that. But we have to have that consequence. When Michael Chertoff, in 2005, faced a surge of Brazilians, he set up a process of expedited removal, reduced the flow by 90% in 60 days. That has to be our first step, is to reduce the flow, and then work long-term with Central America to improve the conditions down there.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to turn to a little bit of politics. There's a book out called American Carnage by Tim Alberta, and there's some interesting Paul Ryan quotes. Being a Wisconsin guy and a Paul Ryan guy, I'm curious of your reaction. Here's the excerpt. "For a long stretch of the 2016 campaign, Paul Ryan refused to accept Trump's takeover of the GOP. He traversed the stages of grief: denial, no way Trump can win; anger, 'I called him a racist;' bargaining, the RNC PowerPoint slides; and depression, 'This is fatal,' he told Reince Priebus, before finally coming to terms with it. This resistance was grounded in a basic belief that the Republican Party was still his party. Looking back, Ryan says, he should've known better." You know Wisconsin. You know Ryan. You know Trump. What do you make of this dispute? Is this personal? Is this a misread of where the party is? And where do you fit?
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
Well, I considered Paul Ryan a friend. I've got a good working relationship with the president. I've always abided by the Ronald Reagan 11th commandment. I think we do need to realize, as Republicans and conservatives, if we're going to defeat --
CHUCK TODD:
President Trump doesn't --
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
-- the growing socialism --
CHUCK TODD:
-- President Trump doesn't abide by that.
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
-- if we're going to defeat the growing socialism of the Democratic left, we need to hang together here. So I think we've accomplished a lot of good things in the last two years. We've stopped aiding the regulatory burden. We have a more competitive tax system that's produced more than 3% growth. Much, you know, ten times higher business investment. That's going to grow our economy in the future. So again, from my standpoint I'd like everybody to get along, because we need to preserve this country, this marvel of the American economy and model of freedom.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think President Trump's criticism of Speaker Ryan and his speakership is warranted?
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
Well, again, I would prefer that we all understand that the opponent in this political struggle are Democrats and their growing socialism, and what they would turn America into. So we need to hang together. I prefer nobody criticized each other on our side.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, Senator Ron Johnson, Republican from Wisconsin. I'm going to leave it there. Thanks for coming on and sharing your views, much appreciated.
SENATOR RON JOHNSON:
Have a great day.
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