Fox News "The Story with Martha MacCallum" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Tulsi Gabbard

Interview

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Here now exclusively Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, a combat veteran and 2020 Democratic presidential candidate. Representative Gabbard, great to have you with us tonight. Thank you very much for being here.

REP. TULSI GABBARD, D-HI: Aloha, Martha. It's great to talk to you.

MACCALLUM: What's your reaction to that? You heard Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the President there and John Bolton have also said that you know, this is not a coup, this is the will of the Venezuelan people that Guardo be in charge.

GABBARD: I think what was mentioned there in that clip -- and I think you highlighted that the United States is putting all options on the table including U.S. military options. That points to a much bigger risk and a much bigger danger. That poses the American people in our own national security.

Any time we're in this situation where you have tensions being ratcheted up in this conflict being pushed closer and closer between nuclear-armed countries like the United States and countries like Russia and China, this is something that poses an existential threat to the American people.

And when you hear this kind of saber rattling coming from the Trump administration, from people like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo pushing this - - the civil war and for the United States to get involved, we're dealing with dangerous consequences. We know this all too well in Hawaii just over a year ago when we got this nuclear missile alert that went across over a million people's phones in our state's saying missile incoming, seek shelter immediately, this is not a drill.

What we found in that terrifying incident even though it was a false alarm, the threat was real, and there was nowhere to go. There was no shelter to be found.

MACCALLUM: But you do have -- you know, obviously you have a desperate situation that's playing out in Venezuela. People have lost an average of 24 pounds, you know, hunger. There is electricity issues to be clear and you know millions of people have fled. And we have tried sanctions against the oil business, against Cuba which has a huge influence there and none of that seems to be working to give the people of Venezuela what they democratically voted for.

And the concern is that having this in our backyard where you could have a foreign adversary have so much control as we see from Russia in that country now, that that's a threat to our security as well.

GABBARD: You brought up a few points there. First of all, Russia and China have had long-standing relationships with Venezuela where they've had you know, the sale of the S-300 missiles happened over a decade ago between Russia and Venezuela. That relationship with China has been long-standing.

These are not things that are new. What we are hearing is an increased saber-rattling and tension saying the United States needs to send in the U.S. military now to wage yet another wasteful counterproductive regime change war, and once again it's being done under the guise of humanitarianism.

If this administration is so concerned about the well-being of the Venezuelan people as we all are, then they should be using their influence and power to try to bring the different sides together towards some reconciliation to bring some negotiation --

MACCALLUM: Wouldn't they say that that's exactly what they've been trying to do? We heard from Secretary Pompeo and from the President that they are hoping for a peaceful -- for a peaceful resolution here. But you have Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister saying that our interference is a grave violation of international law. So do you agree with him?

GABBARD: Well, the problem is that you hear people like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo saying that they're hoping for a diplomatic solution while at the same time basically using the threat of U.S. military force. That does not set the stage for diplomacy, that simply ratchets up the tensions.

The United States should set the example and lead the way --

MACCALLUM: Well, let me -- I understand what you are saying --

GABBARD: -- bring other parties to the table to try to say hey, let's have internationally brokered and overseen elections so that the Venezuelan people can truly have their voice heard.

MACCALLUM: But do you believe that Maduro should go? Do you believe that Nicolas Maduro has been a horrific leader for his -- for his people and that he should go.

GABBARD: I think that the Venezuelan people ultimately need to be the ones to make that decision.

MACCALLUM: But they have made that decision.

GABBARD: And the United States -- the United States is not helping the situation by interfering and basically pushing for externally yet another regime change war that history shows us has not turned out to have a positive impact so you people in the countries where we wage these wars. That's why I'm pushing for diplomacy.

MACCALLUM: So you would just -- you know, there's 50 countries that have backed Guaido and say that he's the rightful democratic leader of that country. I mean, if you're a person who loves Venezuela and lives there and is looking to the United States saying please help us, are you saying that you would turn your back on them if they need -- even if they do need some military support, you would say sorry we're not doing it?

GABBARD: I'm saying that when we look throughout history, every time the United States goes into another country and topples a dictator or topples a government, the outcome has been disastrous for the people in these countries. That's why we should use our leadership in the -- in the world to try to broker a diplomatic solution, working with countries like Russia that have great influence over Venezuela, so that there is a peaceful outcome.

Because I can tell you as a soldier, Martha, I've seen firsthand the high cost of war. And pushing for this civil war, pushing for the use of military force will only end up with more suffering and death and disaster for the Venezuelan people what -- to speak of increasing the nuclear threat, increasing these tensions that that risk and threaten our own national security.

MACCALLUM: All right, Congresswoman Gabbard, I hope you'll come back. Good to have you with us tonight. Thank you very much.

GABBARD: Thanks, Martha.

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