Fox News "Sunday Morning Futures" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Michael McCaul

Interview

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REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, R-TX: Hey. Good morning, Charles.

PAYNE: Well, it's interesting, because it's -- we have seen a lot of provocation in this region recently, particularly these type of attacks.

And everyone for the most part is unanimously pointing fingers at Iran here. So where do we go from here as more and more of our allies probably come to the same assessment that we have?

MCCAUL: Well, I think the evidence is very clear this is IRGC, the Islamic Republic of Iran, that made these attack on these two tankers.

It's not the first time. We had four tankers a couple weeks ago. We had attacks in Saudi. We had a rocket trying to bring down one of our drones just yesterday that was taking a surveillance video of these vessels or these ships, trying to cover up the evidence that they had laid on these ships.

And so I think it's very clear it's Iran. I think what's happening, Charles, is the sanctions are working. We're crippling Iran's economy. The waivers were not granted for oil exports, and they're getting desperate.

And so they want to attack oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz. And I think it's important that we defend that commerce and work with our allies. I think the end goal here, when I talk to the administration, is to negotiate and get a better deal with Iran.

PAYNE: What purpose, though, does it provide for them to really increase this provocation?

And, also, let's point out their proxies in the region who are committing a lot more heinous acts than just blowing holes in the sides of oil tankers.

MCCAUL: Yes.

PAYNE: I mean, why are they ratcheting this up right now? What is their endgame in their minds?

MCCAUL: It's a response to, I think, the sanctions and the waivers not being granted.

PAYNE: So, is it desperation?

MCCAUL: Yes, I think it's desperation. I think the top general for Iran called for -- to prepare for war, called on the proxies, prepare for war.

Our top general said the threat is imminent. And that's why we're there. We have 100,000 tons of diplomacy with our ships in the Persian Gulf. And we're hopeful that we can reach an agreement with Iran to stop. We don't want war in the region. We want peace.

PAYNE: In the meantime, though, it feels like the wild card here could be our European allies, who are contemplating an economic system, to do trading with Iran that goes around the current system, and so, therefore, they don't have to join with President Trump in getting out of this Iranian nuclear deal.

And they have been far less vocal about taking on the misconduct of Iran. What's going on with our allies?

MCCAUL: I think our allies in Europe hold the cards here. I think they have a choice. You do business with Iran, or you do business with the United States. And I think...

PAYNE: But it feels like they're trying to find a way to do business with Iran.

MCCAUL: And the United States.

PAYNE: Right.

MCCAUL: Right. And they can't have it both ways.

And I think, at the end of the day, that's what's going to bring this to the negotiating table.

PAYNE: In the meantime, I know that I see a lot of videos and people reach out to me from inside of Iran, and it feels like something is going on there, sort of the beginnings of perhaps a counter-revolution, if you will.

This happen a few years ago under the Obama administration. A lot of people were frustrated that there wasn't any help from the Obama administration for that grassroots uprising. What role should America be playing if indeed there are people, more people than the American public will ever know, in Iran looking for freedom and looking for a different way of life?

MCCAUL: Not only did President Obama not help the counter-revolutionary movement. He actually funded their terror operations with the JCPOA -- $150 billion, and some of it cash in airplanes, went to Iran.

They are in Iraq and Syria and Lebanon, the Houthi rebels in Yemen. It's gotten out of control. But what we seen lately with the president snapping back the sanctions is that they're cash-starved. They can't sell their oil anymore, and that it's having a crippling effect that I think will create the conditions, Charles, I hope, for a revolution within Iran.

It's got to be the people of Iran standing up against the oppressive theocracy of the ayatollah.

PAYNE: You know, the interesting point is, with that $150 billion, that's one of the contentions, and -- points of contention.

MCCAUL: Right. That's a lot of money.

PAYNE: The average Iranian is saying, hey, you know what, I see generals building mansions, right? I see folks in the Revolutionary Guard living pretty good. But the average Iranian's life is more miserable than ever.

MCCAUL: It's...

PAYNE: It's ironic how that might actually be the one thing that -- since they used a lot of this money to fund terrorism, instead of growing their own economy.

MCCAUL: And that's what's happening.

I think their economy and that 40 percent of their economy is energy, right? That's almost half. If they can't sell their oil, their economy collapses. And if their economy collapses, the people will stand up. And that's what we hope.

PAYNE: I want to switch gears a little bit.

Former Democratic vice president nominee Joe Lieberman, he's the chairman of the United Against Nuclear Iran. And he was here just a few days ago, and he weighed in on "Mornings With Maria." Just take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH LIEBERMAN, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Credit. Turned it around. The president broke out of the Iran nuclear agreement, squeezing Iran with sanctions economically. They are on the defensive.

So this is one of the ways they can fight back. And this is why we got to hang tough right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: So there is some bipartisan recognition of what's happening here and some support, at least the administration and what they're trying to accomplish here.

MCCAUL: Well, I think people like Joe Lieberman get Iran.

Chairman Eliot Engel, the chairman of Foreign Affairs Committee -- I'm ranking member -- he understands that Iran's not our friend. You can't -- he was against the JCPOA, by the way.

And so I think there is bipartisan support. There are others on the Democrat side that don't -- to go back to Obama's policies, which I think were clearly a failure.

PAYNE: Let's switch gears a little bit.

Hong Kong, the uprisings there, in the midst of our negotiation with China on trade, I think it gives us a stronger hand. I think the world gets a first-hand glimpse of how Hong Kong feels about the Chinese government and their ability to renege on deals, their ability to have a police state, and just what we're dealing with here, because, for me, this trade negotiation goes much further than just the deficits that we have incurred.

MCCAUL: This president is the first president in decades to take China head on. And I commend him for it. And it's not easy.

The trade discussions, as you know, it impacts the economy and the stock market. I think, at the end of the day, we're going to get a better trade deal. But, also, when you look at China's intellectual property theft, espionage, we talk a lot about Huawei, 5G.

When they plant 5G, now they're -- they're basically covering half of the globe now in 5G. When their 5G goes in -- that's through telecommunications -- they own and control that data, and they steal the data from those countries.

So I think, from an espionage, I.P. theft standpoint, it's a good thing.

PAYNE: And, yes, you talked about the impact on the markets.

On Friday, Thursday afternoon, Friday, a major tech company, Broadcom, warned that their numbers, their revenues wouldn't be as good as they had been. And there's a $2 billion warning. And they talked about not being able to do business with Huawei.

It was interesting, because they had only done 900 million with them the year before, so I'm not sure how it became a $2 billion hit. But these are the headlines you see on Wall Street.

So Wall Street is against this; 600 CEOs wrote a letter to President Trump saying, hey, listen, let's stop with the fight against China.

It's frustrating for me, because we're going into the last, perhaps the most pivotal part of these negotiations at the G20 meeting, for them to do this so publicly. But what do you make of it that, on one side, in this country, the business, large business leaders, multinational companies, really visibly pushing back against President Trump's efforts?

MCCAUL: Well, we do want -- I think the G20 raises a good point.

I think the president has a good opportunity to meet with President Xi and work out a deal. I think that's very much on the table. Both sides want to get something done. And I hope that we do accomplish that.

I think, at the end of the day, you are going to see a better result with this deal. But we -- I look at it from a national security standpoint, Charles. I mean, when you have got the cybersecurity operations where intellectual property means nothing to them culturally, they steal -- they stole my security clearance and 20 million others.

They -- again, to go back to 5G, it's -- Huawei, it's a big issue, because wherever they plant down their telecommunications, they own that country's data. And I think a lot of countries, we try to educate them that if the Chinese come in, it's not going to be in your best interest. They are going to steal everything you have. They are going to bring their own workers in and they're going to put ports there.

They took the port in Sri Lanka and Djibouti.

PAYNE: Right. Right.

MCCAUL: They are all over the world.

PAYNE: All over the world, that diplomacy. Interesting. The prime minister of Malaysia, 90 years old, went to Hong Kong and said, I don't want your $20 billion. It's a new form of colonialism.

MCCAUL: That's right.

PAYNE: Stay with us.

We are going to have more with Texas Congressman McCaul on the crisis at the southern border.

Plus, still ahead, we will hear from the White House, their trade adviser, Peter Navarro, also GOP Senator Marsha Blackburn, Democratic Congressman Matt Cartwright, and Asia expert Gordon Chang.

Please stay with us, a lot to look ahead for on "Sunday Morning Futures."

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PAYNE: And we're back with the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Texas Congressman Michael McCaul.

Want to ask you about this story that's been breaking, United States stepping up cyberattacks on Russia. You know, listen, everyone's complaining, or had been complaining that we weren't doing enough about Russia and their interference.

Where are we going with this?

MCCAUL: Well, I think we are stepping up our attacks on Russia. And we should.

And this disinformation campaign and the 2016 election, I got briefed in the Gang of Eight in October of 2016. I think it's a little -- I don't know who leaked this story. It's more in the classified space. So, I think it's irresponsible, though, to leak that and have The New York Times print this.

But I think, overall, the American people should know that we're ramping up our cyber-operations.

PAYNE: It feels to me that every country does a fair amount of interference, a fair amount of spying. I mean, this is not new at all.

MCCAUL: No.

PAYNE: And I think, though, it's sort of -- again, we would anticipate that we are pushing back, because Russia has really been pretty successful with the amount of interference that they have done, not just with America, but throughout the world in recent times.

MCCAUL: No. And Ukraine is getting hit every day. And I think the Baltic states in the former Soviet Union getting hit every day.

The Russians -- unlike the Chinese, who their cyber is more about espionage and stealing, the Russians are very aggressive at trying to bring things down and also disinformation campaign. So I think it's a positive thing.

I have been briefed on this, that we're responding in a very powerful way against Putin.

PAYNE: You're just not happy the way the public is finding out about it?

MCCAUL: Well, Putin is not our friend. He's our enemy. And we're hitting him back.

PAYNE: Want to ask you about immigration.

Of course, that's a very, very hot topic, and a few things going on. We just released some polls at FOX News this morning. Want to reference those polls now, because they ask one big question is the Trump administration enforcement of immigration laws.

Fifty percent say that the administration has gone too far, 24 percent say not far enough, and another 21 percent think it's just about right.

So, essentially, the country is split right down the middle on this.

MCCAUL: Yes. It's always a divisive issue, but we do have a crisis at the border.

I live in Texas. It's a humanitarian crisis. We're trying to get funding right now in the Congress just to take care of these kids down there in a humanitarian way. Health and Human Services will run out of money this month.

Even The New York Times agreed with Republicans that we need to do something. And yet Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats continue to block this measure. I think we need to address these family units down there, and we're going to run out of money to house them.

PAYNE: Well, you know, Mexico apparently will be doing more after being threatened with tariffs, 6,000 National Guard -- their National Guard/police force at their southern border.

Do you think that will help to curb this issue? But is it enough? I mean, it's one thing to curb this. It's another thing for -- to have the solutions for this.

MCCAUL: I think it was pretty significant.

And I have been following this since I was chairman of Homeland Security and as a federal prosecutor. I think the tariffs actually -- it's interesting to watch this president work, right? And a lot of people disagreed with these tariffs on Mexico.

At the end of the day, it got us better security. And they're going to put 6,000 National Guard down at the southern border, which is -- with Guatemala is 200 miles vs. 2,000 miles U.S.-Mexico. And it gets more to the root cause of the problem. I think that's positive.

The other thing that's positive is that they will be processing asylum claims not in the United States, but rather in Mexico. So, in other words, the -- someone who crosses will be extradited to Mexico, and the claims will be adjudicated in the United States.

This should help push some of this flow back into Mexico, and not in the United States.

PAYNE: Mexico, ultimately, do you think they will say, OK, we will be a safe third country?

MCCAUL: And that's a big deal.

If I were in the administration, I would be working so hard to get that agreement done. We have that with Canada right now. If Mexico signed that agreement, it would be a game-changer.

I tried to change the asylum laws last Congress with Chairman Goodlatte last Congress. Every Democrat voted against it, but we need to change those laws. But short of that...

PAYNE: Explain to the audience, though, what that would mean, what that -- how it changes the dynamics of everything.

MCCAUL: Well, we would treat people from Central America the same way we treat people from Mexico.

If you touch base in the United States from Mexico, you're expeditiously removed from the country. If you come from Central America, you're granted special status, and you can actually stay in the United States.

The cartels, it took them about five to 10 years to figure out our laws. Now they understand it. And they're manipulating it and making a lot of money off it.

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