NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. John Kennedy

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. Both President Trump and Democrats know that impeachment has no chance at succeeding without the support of some Senate Republicans, who so far, have shown every sign of sticking by the president. One of those Senate Republicans is John Kennedy of Louisiana. He's a member of the Judiciary Committee, who is among many in his party who were a bit more sympathetic to Attorney General Bill Barr when Barr testified before the Judiciary Committee this week. And Senator Kennedy joins me now from a suburb of New Orleans: Kenner, Louisiana. Senator Kennedy, good to see you, sir. Welcome back.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Thanks, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

Before I get to the committee hearing, I want to get to the president's phone call with Vladimir Putin and his explanation of what happened in it and get your reaction on the other side. Let me play it for the viewers.

(BEGIN TAPE)

REPORTER:

Did you address the election-meddling issues that came up in the Mueller report with Mr. Putin today?

DONALD TRUMP:

We discussed it. He actually sort of smiled when he said something to the effect that it started off as a mountain, and it ended up being a mouse. But he knew that, because he knew there was no collusion.

REPORTER:

Did you tell him not to meddle in the next election?

DONALD TRUMP:

We didn't discuss that. Really, we didn't discuss it.

(END TAPE)

CHUCK TODD:

What kind of lost opportunity did the president have there in trying to sort of -- there was a -- there is a part of the Mueller report that everybody agrees with, which is that Russia had a systematic attempt to interfere in our democracy. The president is not taking that seriously with Vladimir Putin. Does that concern you?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Well, I wasn't privy to the conversation. But I hope what the president did was talk to the, to the head of Russia about interference in our elections. I mean, Russia's been doing it, and the former Soviet Union has been doing it, for 60 years. But they've stepped it up, Chuck. And one of the things that's been lost in the Mueller report is how aggressive Russia was in trying to interfere with our democracy. Look, Russia is no longer the Soviet Union. Their economy is smaller than New York state. They've got good spies. They've got nuclear weapons. And they know how to -- they're good at cyberterrorism. And we've got to check them. And we've got to tell them we're not going to tolerate it. And if they keep doing it, we're just going to further add sanctions. And I'm hoping that's what the president did.

CHUCK TODD:

You say, "hope." But if he had said that, wouldn't he have shared that with the American people? Instead, he shared the fact that Vladimir Putin said, "Ah, see? It was not a mountain. It's a molehill." That didn't sound like a president --

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Well, it was a mountain. It was a --

CHUCK TODD:

And it didn't sound like the president who told him, "Stop interfering in our elections."

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

It was a mountain. And I wasn't privy to the whole conversation. You'll have to ask the president about that one.

CHUCK TODD:

All right. Let me move to the hearing itself. After the hearing --

SEN JOHN KENNEDY:

OK.

CHUCK TODD:

-- you and I talked about calling up Bob Mueller to testify. You were open to it. Senator Graham had said, "No." Then he sent this letter to Bob Mueller. Should this be interpreted as an invitation to Bob Mueller to come testify before your committee?

SEN JOHN KENNEDY:

Yes. And let me put this in context. I've been very supportive of the Mueller investigation. Never met the man, but by all accounts, he's a, he's a good, competent, decent man. We have his report. You can debate the rhetoric or the discussion in it or the spin or whatever you want to call it. But the conclusion is no indictment for collusion, no indictment for conspiracy, no indictment for obstruction of justice. Now, I think many of my Democratic friends have accepted that. Some haven't. Many of my Democratic friends thought that Mueller was going to indict the president. And so the Mueller report was kind of like a hair on their biscuit. And now, they don't know what to do. So they're attacking Bill Barr. And my feeling about it is it's time to move on. I understand that Washington is not the big rock candy mountain, and that politics is everybody's blood. But I think we ought to spend a little bit of our time talking about the next generation, as opposed to the next election. If I could make one other point, this business of the dispute between the White House and the House is dangerous to America's institutions. Because if they all go to court -- they need to work it out. If they all go to court, and it becomes a zero-sum game, one of two things is going to happen. Trump's going to win, and that's going to undermine Congress' oversight ability, or Congress is going to win, the House is going to win. And then all of a sudden, the new standard is that the House or the Senate can ask a president or a presidential nominee anything they want to about their personal life, whether it's relevant to being president or not --

CHUCK TODD:

So what's the compromise?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

-- and I think that's a dangerous precedent.

CHUCK TODD:

So what's the compromise? Should the White House --

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

I don't know. Well, I think --

CHUCK TODD:

-- cooperate more?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

I think the White House and the House leadership ought to sit down and say, "Okay. You want this? We'll give you that. Why do you want this?" I don't think the House is in completely good faith. Let me give you an example. When the Ways and Means chairman said he wanted Trump's tax returns, he said, "The reason I want his returns is because it'll help me evaluate how good a job the IRS is doing in auditing." Now, give me a break, Chuck. I mean, if you believe that, you'll never own your own home. Nobody believes that. I mean, he's in total bad faith. The president doesn't have to turn over his tax returns. Would I do it, if I were running for president? Yeah, but there's no law that says he has to.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me go onto the issue of foreign interference.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

OK.

CHUCK TODD:

Should it be a crime to use stolen material, if it comes from a foreign adversary of the United States? Should that be a crime? Because it's not -- basically, if you read the Mueller report, our laws are blurry on this.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Well, first you --

CHUCK TODD:

So should it be a crime? Should you guys be passing this? Should it be a crime to use stolen material from a foreign adversary in a campaign?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Well, if you do make that a crime, you've still got to show intent. You've got to show mens rea. You know, when the Russians spy on you or the Chinese or the North Koreans, they don't come into your office and say, "Hey, we're from Russia or China or North Korea. And let me talk to you." I mean, they do -- they're very clever. So you -- if you're going to pass a law, you've got to be able to -- you've got to require criminal intent.

CHUCK TODD:

But do you -- so you don't think there should be some safeguard in here that way?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

No. No, I didn't say that.

CHUCK TODD:

What does that look like, then?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

If you're telling me, should it be improper or even a crime, presuming you could show mens rea, for me to use in a Senate race material offered by China or North Korea or Argentina, for that matter, or Venezuela, yeah, I'm willing to look at that. But you've got to show intent.

CHUCK TODD:

And do you think -- the Trump campaign has yet -- and the Republican Party as a whole has yet to pledge not to use stolen material. Should they?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Well, I'll pledge I won't use stolen material. But I've got to know it's stolen material. If somebody sends me information, and I don't know it's coming from a foreign adversary --

CHUCK TODD:

So Rudy Giuliani is wrong? Rudy Giuliani is wrong?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

-- then I don't have the mens rea.

CHUCK TODD:

Rudy Giuliani is wrong, when he says there's nothing wrong with using stolen material from the Russians?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

I don't know whether he's wrong or right. I don't know what the law is. You're asking me, should we have a law? Frankly, I haven't researched, Chuck. I'm not trying to dodge your question. I just don't know.

CHUCK TODD:

But should -- you don't think -- ethically, should that be wrong?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Well, if you're asking me, yeah. I mean, I'm not going to use stolen material from Russia or China. I don't think -- I don't know anybody who would. But the point is you've got to know it's stolen. And generally, when they send you this stuff in a campaign, if Russia is -- to my knowledge, Russia's never sent me anything in a campaign. But if they did, I know they're, you know, they're not morons. They're not jelly heads. They're not going not walk in and say, "Hi, I'm from Russia. I've got some information for you."

CHUCK TODD:

And before I go, I want to ask you about North Korea. It does appear as if --

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

OK.

CHUCK TODD:

-- Kim Jong Un launched these rockets as an attempt to restart negotiations with the United States. If President Trump concedes to more negotiations based on that, is that the wrong premise to do? That Kim Jong Un -- should he be punished for this first, instead of rewarded with more talks?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

Well, I want to keep talking with Kim Jong Un. I think -- I don't have any --

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think the President's being played?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:

-- respect for -- No. Well, I don't know. I mean, he could be. I don't know. The only person who knows that is Kim Jong Un. We can all speculate. But I would much rather have us be talking -- have us talking with Kim Jong Un than firing missiles at each other. Now, at some point, we're going to get down to it. It's going to be, "What are you going to give up?" and, "What are we going to give up?" I assume the president's working on that. But in the meantime, I think those sanctions are biting. And I think they're hurting North Korea very hard. And if we can work out a trade deal with China and get China to be more cooperative, we can, we can bring Kim to his knees. What I hate is having to hurt the people North Korea while we're hurting the knucklehead they've got for their president. But that's the way it is.

CHUCK TODD:

That's the way it is. Anyway, Senator John Kennedy, Republican from Louisiana, always appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your views. Thank you very much, sir.

JOHN KENNEDY:

Thanks, Chuck.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source