Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Interview with Ben Ray Lujan
Interview
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HEMMER: Our next guest today helped Democrats regain the majority in the House in the 2018 midterms, leading to the investigative assault we are now seeing against the president.
Joining us now from Santa Fe, New Mexico, Congressman Ben Ray Lujan, the number four Democrat in the House.
And, Congressman Lujan, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday".
REP. BEN RAY LUJAN, D-N.M.: Good morning and good to be with you today, Bill.
HEMMER: I'm going to start with the border as I did with Mick Mulvaney a moment ago.
Six weeks ago, you said this wasn't a crisis. Do you still believe that?
LUJAN: Look, this is not the national security crisis that the president continues to describe. There is a humanitarian crisis, but it's created by President Donald Trump.
When you go back to the threats even during the midterms, the president was suggesting that there was an immediate national security crisis and he sent troops to the border just to try to distract the American people with the gains that we were going to see in the midterms. Then we went into a shutdown and the president took the same deal after 35 days of a shutdown that he couldn't take on day one to prevent that government shutdown.
And here we go again with the president doubling down with threats to shutdown the Mexican border, which would have devastated the U.S. economy, devastated the U.S. auto manufacturers, concerns in many other areas including 27,000 workers in Mexico as the Mueller report was coming out.
So, again, I think the president continues to use immigration as a distraction as opposed to trying to work together in a bipartisan basis, whether it's immigration reform --
HEMMER: OK.
LUJAN: -- or other important measures that we could be talking about.
HEMMER: You're describing this as a political charade but let's look at the numbers. In the past month alone, more than 100,000 illegals have been stopped at the border.
How was that not a crisis?
LUJAN: There are a number of people who have been turning themselves in to border patrol agents as the law allows in the United States for asylum- seekers. And so, when the Department of Homeland Security is reporting these numbers, I don't believe that they are accurately describing the numbers with a number of people that are turning themselves in the versus those that are being apprehended.
HEMMER: OK. Well, here's the homeland security secretary for President Obama. This is what Jeh Johnson said this past week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEH JOHNSON, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: By anyone's definition, by any measure, right now, we have a crisis at our southern border. According to the commissioner of CBP, there were 4,000 apprehensions in one day alone this past week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: There it is again and the word again. Is he wrong?
LUJAN: Well, again, I would say there is a humanitarian crisis at the border, but one that was created by President Donald Trump with his policies. Whether it's his metering initiatives or other policies that have been put in place by Secretary Nielsen.
Look, separating children from their families at the border is not a humane -- it's not with the United States should be doing and we continue to see this administration engage in those policies.
All that we are saying as Democrats is, Mr. President, we want to work together on immigration reform, just as you committed to do when you invited all the cameras in and said we could find some common ground. I certainly hope the president was sincere in that offering and that we can find a way to work together as Democrats and Republicans in the House and the Senate and this administration.
HEMMER: And they would -- and they would fire back and say Congress hasn't done anything.
Last question on this: if you look at the current reality, are the smugglers beating us at our own game? They are beating our laws and they are beating our system.
LUJAN: Well, the United States needs to be working, again, with Mexico and with the Northern Triangle countries. I think the president is threatening to shutdown the border, cut off the money from the Northern Triangle which would only encourage more violence in those countries and encourage more people to flee for their own lives. Think about why these moms are fleeing with their children. They are terrified that they're going to be killed, murdered or raped.
What parent wouldn't do everything they could to protect their child? With that being said now, the United States can continue to work when it comes to strong policies in the United States and the way that Democrats let the initiatives with the investments when it came to border security during the shutdown conversation. What Democrats did was make investments when it came to our ports of entry and also provided more dollars associated for border officials, whether it was customs officials at the southern border or the northern border and also with the water ports.
We should be talking about homeland security and comprehensively as it pertains to national security in the United States.
HEMMER: Unfortunately, we are not going to settle this debate here today, but let me most of the congressional investigations. This past week, "Politico" framed it the following way, it wrote the following: In a single day, House Democrats demanded President Trump's tax returns for six years, move to get a decade worth of his financial records and prepared to issue a subpoena for the full Mueller report from the Justice Department.
The White House would argue that's harassment. Is that what you're doing?
LUJAN: Absolutely not. This is not political as our Republican colleagues are making it out to be, including my friend, Mr. Mulvaney, who was speaking before me. There are authorities under Section 6103 with the Ways and Means Committee to be able to get their hands and requests the president's tax returns in this case.
This as an authority that Republicans used as recently as 2014 and an authority that was used during times with President Nixon, President ford as well. And so, again, no other president in modern times has had to have their tax returns requested under 6103 because they've all voluntarily shared them.
Just as President Trump promised as a candidate that he would share his tax returns after he was elected, he promised he would share his taxes to returns with the American people and he's refused to do so.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: If I could -- I just want to interject her, Mick Mulvaney says Democrats are never going to see them and you started your answer by saying this is all political. However, the request --
(CROSSTALK)
LUJAN: I did not -- Bill, Bill, I did not say it was political. I said it was not political. Let's be clear about that.
HEMMER: OK. Correction noted then.
However, in the request --
LUJAN: Thank you.
HEMMER: -- on behalf of Democrats this week, they want four years of his tax returns before he was president. Why is that relevant?
LUJAN: Again, the president said he would voluntarily share his tax returns. He has refused to do so and Congress has used its authority when Republicans were in charge back in 2014. It was used under President Nixon and President Ford, and all we're saying, Mr. President, is share your tax returns as you promised with the American people and let's make sure that you're following the same rules and laws as everyone else. Again, this is congressional oversight as we are carrying it out.
HEMMER: OK. Let the record show that you did say not political, I want to make that fair to you, OK?
LUJAN: I appreciate that, Bill.
HEMMER: His attorney argues you must have a legitimate legislative reason. And what is the reason, Congressman?
LUJAN: Well, the laws are being followed under Section 6103 under the authorities that are bestowed upon the Congress, in this case the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, also the same authorities that the chair of the Senate Finance Committee would have.
So, I believe that Chairman Richie Neal and his team have put together what I would say is an ironclad request that has been submitted and is going forward.
So again, we just want to work under the laws that we have, under the authorities in this case Section 6103 which gives the chairman of the committee full authority to ask for these tax returns, and for Congress to see them.
HEMMER: OK. Let me go to the Barr summary here. Maybe we get it this week, maybe we get it in the first few days after that. There was a late Friday court decision that came out that ruled grand jury information must remain private.
Now, if that's the case, Democrats who want to make that report public -- and Jerry Nadler has said as much this past week.
If that court case stands, the Democrats just lose that fight?
LUJAN: Look, Congress has taken action. Not just Democrats, Bill, but Republicans as well. Do you remember as Mick Mulvaney talked about the vote that took place on the House floor, 420-0. Democrats and Republicans came together to say this report should be made available to the American people. That's all that we are saying here.
So, no, I don't believe that the court ruling hampers the ability for this report to be made available not just a congress, but to the American people, and that's something that we have been asking for and quite honestly, the president even said a few weeks ago that he would make the report available, that he supported that to the American people.
HEMMER: OK, just --
LUJAN: I don't know why the president keeps flip-flopping on this.
HEMMER: I want to get to one more topic, just one question on this. Is there a risk that Democrats overplayed their hand that we have watched over the past weeks here?
LUJAN: Well, look, on the tax returns alone, over 50 percent of the American people believe that those -- that information should be made available to the country. There is broad support as well for the special counsel's report to be made available to the American people as well.
So, again, what we are talking about here is constitutional oversight that the Congress has a responsibility to carry out and that's all that we are doing here. We should work together in a bipartisan basis in the same way the Republicans did under President Barack Obama.
Let's work together. Let's make sure that this information is made available to the American people.
HEMMER: I have about 30 seconds left here. You've declared you're going to run for Senate in New Mexico but you helped lead Democrats to a majority in 2018. It is also clear that there are fractures within the freshman body in the House. Have you stopped to think about what you created?
LUJAN: Look, I am so encouraged by the work of our new members across America. I worked diligently to lead the effort with Nancy Pelosi the win back the majority in the U.S. House of Representatives where we have policy experts in every area, national security experts down to those that have started successful companies and created jobs across the country.
There's a lot of energy and passion and I think we should unleash that energy as we work to deliver for the American people and while I announce that I am running for the United States Senate, there's a lot of work to do over the next two years, including making sure that we just not continue to deliver for the American people as House Democrats, but that we flip the Senate in the same way that we delivered the House for the American people, and that's something that we're working on doing.
HEMMER: President Obama went public over the weekend in a town hall. I don't know if you saw it, but what he suggested is that you run the risk of having a circular firing squad when you go against each member. What did you think about that comment?
LUJAN: Well, I didn't hear the president's town hall but, look, I think that as a caucus, we have family disagreements. We are a big caucus. We're a big tent caucus. And so, you're going to have some disagreements but you have them as a family.
In the end, our values and our principles are the same when we want to talk about how we can deliver for the American people who are still having a hard time even though the economy is doing better. There still our families across the country who if they had a $500 emergency, there wouldn't be able to fit that into the family budget for the month. And as we've also heard from Senator Bennet out of Colorado, most recently, the concerns associated with wage growth in the country has been stagnant.
Working families like the one I was raised are still having a hard time across the country and that's what Democrats are committed to delivering --
HEMMER: OK.
LUJAN: -- lowering health care costs, prescription drug prices, passing HR-1, moving in a bipartisan way for infrastructure and creating job opportunities across America. And we've already been able to do that. But Mitch McConnell has been standing in in the way of progress in the Senate. And that's another reason why I am running for the U.S. Senate.
HEMMER: Sir, I appreciate your time today. Thank you and good luck to you.
Congressman Lujan from New Mexico today.
LUJAN: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: Please come back. Thank you.
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