MSNBC "Hardball" - Transcript: Interview with Reps. Gerry Connolly and Ryan Costello

Interview

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KORNACKI: All right, Gerry Connolly, let me bring you in on that too, a  Democratic perspective here.
Do you agree, first of all, with your colleague? Or do you see a path  between now and that transfer of power for the government to reopen?

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D), VIRGINIA: I, sadly, believe that the government  will not deal with a reopening until the Democrats take over the majority  on January 3.

I do believe, however, that one of the first orders of business of the new  Democratic House will be to pass a clean continuing resolution to fund the  government.

KORNACKI: It seems this issue here -- you heard Trump changing his -- as  we say, the terminology a little bit there. It`s been the wall in the  past. He used the word fence in that clip we just -- we just played, the  steel slat barrier. He`s saying whatever you want to call it.

I guess there seems to be, Congressman Connolly, part of the issue here, it  seems to me at least, is, Democrats say they`re willing to fund border  security, but the idea of giving Trump a penny for anything that he can go  around and call a wall is a line for you.

Is that is -- that correct? Any penny for a wall is too much, from a  Democratic standpoint?

CONNOLLY: Well, I think we need to back up a little bit here, Steve.

I mean, remember, all of the Republicans in the U.S. Senate voted for a  clean continuing resolution, without any additional funding for a wall.  Secondly, Trump explicitly campaigned on, there will be a wall, and Mexico  will pay for it, not U.S. taxpayers.

So the idea that somehow we`re in a situation where it`s the burden of the  new Democrats coming into the majority status in the House to fund  something called a wall, where did that idea come from?

And then there`s a third problem. Who do we negotiate with? Remember,  President Trump just last week said -- or the White House said he would  sign a clean continuing resolution and would accept the fact that there  would be $1.3 billion worth of border security and no more.

What`s changed that, suddenly, there`s a hard line, and somehow we  Democrats bear some burden to meet that hard line that wasn`t in existence  a little over a week ago?

KORNACKI: Well, so, Congressman Costello -- and you were making this point  a little bit -- a few minutes ago, but to bring it back to what Gerry  Connolly just said there as well, if you try to play this out, Democrats  take control of the House early 2019.

They pass a resolution here, they pass a bill that does not fund any kind  of a wall. It moves to the Republican-controlled Senate, which has already  shown its willingness to do something similar. Do you see President Trump  -- do you anticipate that, at that point, President Trump gives in? Does  he change his mind?
What do you think would happen then?

COSTELLO: I think two things will happen.

Number one, the Senate will not take a bill up until the president says  that he will sign it, because what happened was not supposed to happen.  The Senate only put -- McConnell only put that bill on the floor because the White House had said that the president would sign it. Then the president changed his mind after the fact.

And the second thing that I would say there is that I don`t see a scenario  where -- no matter what happens, the president is going to say that he got  money for the wall, OK? Let`s just be real blunt about this. It doesn`t  matter if there`s money for a wall or not. He`s going to say that there  is.

And some of his supporters are going to say, oh, fine, the president got  his money, everything`s good. I mean, that`s just the -- that`s the kind  of -- that`s the world we`re living in right now.

KORNACKI: Well, it`s not just Democrats who`ve been going after the  president for his handling of the shutdown.

Here`s what some of his fellow Republicans have also been saying.

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KORNACKI: And the president went back after Bob Corker, retiring  Republican senator you just saw there at the end of that sequence, in a  pair of tweets, Trump blaming him for the Iran nuclear deal, also saying  the reason Corker is retiring is because -- quote -- "He asked for my  endorsement. I said no. And the game was over."

Congressman Costello, the relationship between the president and the  Republicans who will remain in Congress for the next two years, maybe a  split there between the Senate side and the House side; is that fair to  say?

COSTELLO: Well, perhaps.

But, Steve, I would actually say that there will probably be more  solidarity than there has been in the past year, just because many of the  retirements, many of those who lost were in districts where you did need  some differentiation from the president in order to at least have the  potential to win. Most ended up losing.
In the Senate, you saw it with two retiring senators, so that the  conference, to use the phrase in your phenomenal book, is much redder.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: And when you have a redder conference, you would probably have  more alignment with the president, because the president is very popular in  the most conservative districts.

As we get closer to 2020, you start seeing Colorado and some other swing --  swingy type Senate seats, and perhaps maybe you do -- you do start seeing  some differentiation. But I think, going into 2019, the conference, at  least in the House, is going to be very much aligned behind the president.

KORNACKI: You may be retired from Congress, but you still have the  instincts of a politician there, flattering your host. I did not ask for  that. But I appreciate that.

The shutdown, meanwhile…

COSTELLO: No, he did not. I can vouch for that.

(LAUGHTER)

KORNACKI: I appreciate that.

While a shutdown continues over Trump`s border wall fight, 800,000 federal  workers aren`t getting paid, even though about half of those, people whose  jobs are considered essential, have to show up for work anyway.
According to the president yesterday, he has their support.

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KORNACKI: And, Congressmen Connolly, your colleague a minute ago said  something interesting.
And I`m curious, do you -- do you share the view that, no matter what  happens here, the president is going to be claiming that he got money for  the wall?

CONNOLLY: The president can turn night into day in his delusional world.

You just heard him say, lots of federal workers are apparently championing  the shutdown and the fact that they`re not going to get paid for their  work, maybe not even called into work.

I have yet to meet a single federal employee -- and I represent the third  largest number in the country -- who has said that. So I would love to  meet some of those people.

But the Republican Congress has been an enabling Congress anyhow, so I  probably don`t disagree with Ryan. But I haven`t seen much independence  from a Republican in the House of Representatives in the last two years.

And I think that contributed to their demise in the midterm elections. And  there are another dozen incumbent Republicans who are coming back who saw a  near-death experience in November. And if they continue down the line of  enabling behavior for this delusional president, I think they will pay a  price in 2020, whether they understand that or not.

But I think the numbers are there in a lot of purple and blue states,  because most of this country is disgusted with the lack of accountability  demanded or not demanded by a Republican Congress. That`s why we have a  Democratic Congress starting on January 3.

KORNACKI: And, Congressman Costello, you said this a minute ago too, just  looking at the composition of the new House, the idea of Republicans from  these sort of swing districts who were -- who lost their seats in the  November midterm.

It is striking that the campaign ended, the midterm campaign ended, with  President Trump pressing this issue, with pressing the immigration issue,  with pressing sort of the cultural themes right there.

Do you see a connection between the way he campaigned in the final days and  that -- what you`re talking about, the idea that those Clinton-Trump  districts, those Republicans have pretty much been emptied out of there  now?

COSTELLO: Well, that -- we have been emptied out.

The final few days and the caravan and the birthright citizenship made  absolutely no sense, particularly if you look at California and Florida and  the competitive House seats there.

The last thing that you want to do is gin up an immigration issue, when you  had republicans -- I was part of this group -- looking for an immigration  compromise over the summer, trying to solve DACA, trying to do visa reform,  and getting away from what I think is an extremely hard-line immigration  position that some Republicans have, and which I think is a political  loser, and which is certainly not reflective of where 80 percent of the  country is, to be sure.

So there`s no doubt in my mind that shutting down the government over the  wall funding and, frankly, the president`s hard-line immigration rhetoric,  it will not grow the party. I think it will diminish it over time. And  that -- it gives me great concern.

KORNACKI: All right, Democratic Congressman Gerry Connolly from Virginia,  Republican Congressman Ryan Costello from Pennsylvania, thank you both for  joining us.

And up next: tried and true or shiny and new?

I`m going to head over to the big board, because we have got a new poll of  Democratic and independent voters, folks who might be voting, probably will  be voting, in those Democratic primaries in 2020. Who do they want to see  challenge Donald Trump?

This is HARDBALL, where the action is.

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