NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Dick Durbin
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is the number-two Democrat in the Senate, Minority Whip Dick Durbin of Illinois. Senator Durbin, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Good to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with the shutdown at this point. Is there any scenario, you think, on December 27th, that reopens the government before January 3rd?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, we've offered the president some very specific opportunities. In fact, we just voted on one, several days ago, a voice vote, unanimous voice vote, to move this government forward to the first or second week of February, which the president rejected, after he heard the right-wing criticism.
CHUCK TODD:
So, what did you make of Senator McConnell, though, recessing? I'm just trying to figure out why you guys decided to leave. And it's -- everybody decided to leave and, basically, left the president here, are you -- is everybody trying to send a message, "Hey, this is his"? Or is this McConnell saying, "I'm out of this.These negotiations are between Schumer and the president," which is what Senator Toomey just said.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you that the president, just a few days ago, said he was proud to author a shutdown of his own government that he was elected to be the commander in chief and chief executive. It really is in the president's hands to decide. He says it's an issue of border security. I think we know better. It's an issue of his own political insecurity. When the right-wingers start screaming at him, he just backs off and dissembles in front of us. We now have reached a depth of dysfunction that I've never seen in Washington.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you at all open to anything in between $1.6 billion and $5 billion?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, what Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi have both told the president is, we are not going to build a wall, period. Secondly, if you want to talk about border security, there are many things we can do. Understand, we're in the depths of a drug epidemic. We see Fentanyl coming across the border, from Mexico, into the United States and killing thousands of people. We currently are only screening one out of five cars and trucks coming across our border. Let us dramatically increase the technology there in something called a Z Portal. That's the kind of investment that Democrats want to see for real border security, not some medieval wall.
CHUCK TODD:
So it sounds like what you're saying is, you'll go up in the price tag. You're open to the price tag, as long as it's not for the wall.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:Absolutely.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
And if you ask the experts, even in the administration, they will tell you that technology and personnel, those are the things that are needed desperately and quickly. The president ought to be sitting down with us and making this border more secure by making investments. He'll have Democrats onboard.
CHUCK TODD:
So you'd give him twice the money. If none of the money goes to the wall, and it all goes to what you just described, you'd probably double it, and we'd get out of this tomorrow?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
I can tell you that I think there's an appetite, among Democrats, to do something sensible at the wall, for example, to stop the flow of drugs into this country and to stop the flow of weapons and laundered drug money out of this country that build these cartels in Mexico and Central America.
CHUCK TODD:
Is DACA for the wall, the compromise that was alive for a few days, back in the day, is that still -- if the president came back and said, would you take that --"I'll take that deal now," would you have the public-- support in your party to accept it?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I touched that hot stove back in February. And I can tell you that this president's word, when it comes to these young people who are in desperate situation, because he eliminated DACA, the president's word didn't stand up, when we basically got down to real bargaining. The day will come and soon when the court protection of these young people and their families is going to end. We will have to face the reality of either abandoning them or working together to find a solution.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me turn to Secretary Mattis. You sent a series of tweets, after the news of his resignation broke. And you called him the last adult in the room, I believe, at one point. Do you think Secretary Mattis should've stayed, regardless of his views, because he was, supposedly, the last guardrail or one of the few guardrails that some thought were in the administration?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Chuck, there was something very interesting about this. I was one of many senators who privately sat down with General Mattis and said, "Please, stay. Stay as long as you possibly can. We desperately need your mature voice, your patriotism, in the room, when this president's making life-or-death decisions about national security." But it obviously reached a breaking point. I thank him for his years of service in the Marines and, certainly, at the Department of Defense. It breaks my heart that he's going to step aside. We counted on him to be there and to stop this president from his worst impulse.
CHUCK TODD:
I'm curious. You're somebody who, on policy, I'm guessing, you're pleased that we're going to start seeing troops come home from Afghanistan and start seeing troops come home from Syria. How do you square the president's announcements about those two things? Because you've called, you've called for both in some -- in one way or the other.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you, it was 17 years ago when 23 of us, 22 Democrats, one Republican, voted against the invasion of Iraq for so-called weapons of mass destruction, which never existed. I voted, at the same period of time, with virtually every other senator, to invade Afghanistan and go after the sources of the attack on 9/11. Little did I know that I was voting for the longest war in the history of the United States and that that vote would be used as a rationalization for us to move into Syria, Africa, and places I never could've envisioned. I think the Constitution makes it clear. The American people should've been making these decisions along the way. We do this by Congress and it's declaration of war. We need to reassert our authority and responsibility when it comes to that in Syria, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and any other places that have been rationalized by that vote 17 years ago.
CHUCK TODD:
I guess, though -- I want to go back to the decision itself. It looks like the president, is getting -- he's setting himself -- he's got his national security advisor, who wants to stay longer than even his defense secretary did. But it was the Turkish president who talked him into doing this withdrawal. How does the Senate even hold the president to account over how this decision-making went down?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, ultimately, we've learned, through history, that it takes the power of the purse strings, that Congress has the authority, when it comes to appropriations, to assert itself on foreign policy. We learned the hard way, after decades of debate over the war in Vietnam. But first and foremost, this Congress, House and Senate, have to reach the point where we understand our Constitutional authority and responsibility. I haven't seen that in a long time. And with this president, we need to do it more than ever.
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CHUCK TODD:
Does the Turkish phone call make you think the president is compromisable?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Yes, I do. I have to tell you that, whether he's talking to Vladimir Putin or Erdogan, these autocrats have him enthralled. And after a conversation, he'll make snap judgements and avoid the best advice that he could from people like General Mattis. That, to me, is the height of irresponsibility. There are thousands of Kurds who are risking their lives to help us defeat ISIS, who are now in jeopardy, because of this impulsive decision by Donald Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you question his fitness for office?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you, every day, I question whether or not we can endure another two years. I, I think we can. I think this Constitution's strong. The American people are strong. But I'm hoping that my Republican colleagues will step up and join us in a bipartisan effort to put this government back on track.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, you've brought up two years. Two years from now, are you going to be on a ballot in Illinois in November of 2020? Have you made a final decision?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Listen, I, I can tell people that I'm raising money and trying to lose some weight. That's usually the first indication that you're up for reelection.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat from Illinois, I hope you enjoy the holidays. And you and your family have a merry Christmas.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Looking forward to seeing a lot of grandkids. Thanks.
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