CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Baldwin Interviews REP. Katherine Clark (D-MA)

Interview

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BALDWIN: Thank you very much for that. We'll stay on this. And talk about how House Democrats are showing any signs of strains. Speaker Pelosi urged Democrats to stick to the plan. During a private meeting this morning, she says the party has more power when it's united. But one member of her caucus in an interview says, give Trump the money. I'd give him the whole thing and put strings on it so you make sure he puts the wall where it needs to be. Why are we fighting over this? We're going to build the wall any way at some time. With me is Vice Chair Congresswoman Katherine Clark of Massachusetts. Welcome, nice to see you.

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Great to be with you.

BALDWIN: So, before we get into shutdown, we have to talk about this Trump letter and Speaker Pelosi. She did start it saying this is my House, you're not coming. Trump responds this is my town. I'm coming unless you disinvite me. My question for you is what is Speaker Pelosi's move? What would you like to see?

[14:25:00] CLARK: Well, I would agree with the way you set that up. Trump started this by shutting down government. Telling our federal workers, they are no longer going to be paid. Often for key security positions that they perform to protect the American people. When Nancy Pelosi said to the President think about those people who are going to be protecting members of Congress, the Supreme Court, the Senate, the President himself. If we have the State of the Union during the Trump shutdown when they won't even be paid. I think a proposal is a simple one. Let's find other mutually agreeable dates when government is open.

BALDWIN: It's my understanding that Speaker Pelosi told members of the caucus this morning not to invite your families to the State of the Union next Tuesday. What was the implication there?

CLARK: I think the implication is we simply don't know when this President is going to acknowledge the pain that this shutdown is causing and do the right thing.

BALDWIN: Do you think that meant we're not having one or he's not coming here?

CLARK: I think it meant she did not want people investing in travel when we were unsure when this President is going to open government. And what we have seen is the Democrats, we have taken our tenth vote to reopen government. We tried to give the Senate the bills they had already passed. Now we are responding to House Republicans who said let's pass our compromised bills. We just did that. So now it's really up to them. It's up to the House Republicans.

BALDWIN: Hang on. To be fair to both sides here, the Republicans would disagree saying Trump over the weekend put forth a three-year protection on DACA. That's something he hadn't in 2017, but still, they see that as their compromise and your party didn't even counteroffer.

CLARK: Because we have been very clear from the beginning. We are willing to compromise, we are committed to enhancing border security. We want to do it in the most effective way possible. But the way we do that is with an open government. What we cannot tolerate is the current situation where the President is asking federal employees, key people, FBI, the Coast Guard, TSA, air traffic controllers to come to work without pay.

BALDWIN: Congresswoman --

CLARK: Without any acknowledgment.

BALDWIN: I talked to a woman yesterday and she puts the blame on Trump. What about Congressman Peters says that Speaker Pelosi should do? He says give the money to Trump. Build his wall. Make this stop. A lot of freshmen Democrats agree with him. Do you think there are cracks forming in your caucus?

CLARK: Absolutely not. I think this caucus is very unified. And that we need government to be open. And what we have here is a situation where if we pay the ransom for this wall, which is a medieval form, it's ineffective border security. Let me give you a great example. In my home state of Massachusetts, the opioid crisis is still raging and claiming lives in towns across my district and across our state. We want to make sure that we are interrupting the flow of heroin and fentanyl into this country, so let's fund ways that will do that effectively. The wall in a desert does not do that. Those are the type of border security issues that are so critical to American families and American security ask to hold us hostage to this idea of one project of this President creating security --

BALDWIN: He would say it's a bit more than a pet project. However, you want to label this wall, the left and the right, so totally disagree. What we can all agree is the hundreds of thousands of people that the real-world impacts, we'll put the scroll on the screen. To showcase all the people and its affected by the shutdown. I don't have to tell you this. We know how painful this is. I talked to a woman yesterday with two children who suffer from asthma and she's rationing their medication. When they see Trump and Speaker Pelosi haven't spoken in 14 days, and the only communication they have is bickering over the location of the State of the Union, they would ask where are the substantive conversations? What about the Democrats? Where will your party give an inch? I hear you on reopening the government, but before that, where do you give?

[14:30:00] CLARK: There's an easy route to compromise here. Let's look at the effective ways to protect our southern border. Let's use technology. Let's strengthen our ports, where we know most of the illegal drugs coming into this country come directly through. Let's improve that infrastructure. But none of this conversation can be done while government is shutdown. It took two years of Republican control in the House and Senate and White House. They never made this the emergency until December 20th as Democrats were poised to come into control of the House. Our message has been clear. We are willing to come to the table. We want to talk about effective border security. But you cannot use the bludgeon to the American people of a shutdown as your tool to getting there. Open government. Open it for a short period of time. Keep pressure on all parties to come to the table. But let's have that negotiation with government open. That's our message. That's what the American people and the Democratic caucus are unified in support of.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Congresswoman, thank you so much.

CLARK: Thank you.

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