MSNBC "HardBall with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Sherrod Brown

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. .

On Friday, President Trump is set to make yet another trip to Ohio. It`s a  state that voted for him in 2008 -- actually voted for Obama in 2008 and  2012, and then swung dramatically to Trump in 2016. He beat Hillary  Clinton in Ohio by eight points.

Well, the president is set to host a fund-raiser there for Republican  Senate candidate -- the candidate Jim Renacci. Renacci, who is challenging  two-term Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown, faces an uphill battle. Brown  holds a double-digit lead right now, according to RealClearPolitics in the  averaging of polls.
First elected in 2006, Senator Brown has been a vocal advocate for the  working families of his state. In today`s "Cincinnati Enquirer," he  writes: "We need to reset the conversation to focus on our greatest asset,  the American worker. And one place we can start is by unraveling the  disastrous provisions of the GOP tax plan that actually rewards companies  that move their productions to foreign countries."

For more, I`m joined by himself.

Well, Senator Brown, I have always thought you were the ideal Democrat  nationally. But let`s talk about Ohio.
Trump ran on some pretty appealing things to people like you, even though  we didn`t vote for him. I didn`t vote for him. And I don`t think you did.

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Chris, that`s a fair assumption.

MATTHEWS: One, he was going to get rid of stupid wars. And you were  against the Iraq War. He was going to build infrastructure. He was going  to be for the working family.

BROWN: Still waiting.

MATTHEWS: Yes, what happened?

BROWN: Well, I…

MATTHEWS: He promised all this good stuff.

BROWN: Yes, I think people -- well, I think Ohioans, a lot of working  Ohioans believe that Washington`s forgotten them. They have seen these  trade agreements that have shut down production in Mansfield and Toledo and  moved it to Wuhan and Beijing and Reynosa, Mexico.

And they don`t see their children having it better -- having a better  material life than they are. And they rolled the dice. I think they`re  saying that there is no infrastructure plan, that the tax bill  overwhelmingly helps the rich.

There`s a provision in the tax bill. If you -- if you`re manufacturing in  Youngstown, you pay 21 percent corporate tax rate. GM does. But if they  move that plan to Mexico that they have talked about, they pay 10.5  percent. So government basically gives them a 50 percent off coupon on  their taxes.

MATTHEWS: OK.

BROWN: What is fair about that?

MATTHEWS: On infrastructure, I want to remind people like you, he made a  specific promise. He was going to rebuild Penn Station in New York all the  way to LAX Airport in California. He was going to rebuild this country.  Instead, he gave the tax cuts to the rich.

Anyway, here`s your ad. I do like the ad. I think it does tell the Democratic story, not just in your state. Let`s watch.

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MATTHEWS: So the Democrats have always been, since I was a kid, back in  the days of Adlai Stevenson, Hubert Humphrey, Jack Kennedy, of course, for  the working family.

BROWN: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Then Trump comes along and steals your lunch. What happened?

BROWN: Well, I think Democrats have not talked enough about fighting for the little guy, meaning really our party…

MATTHEWS: Are they too intellectual, too free trade?

BROWN: Well, they`re not -- no, they`re too -- the party has been too free trade, but the Republicans have been more free trade. But that`s our problem to show where we are and fight for workers.

But I don`t think the voters necessarily think what we should be thinking.  And that is, you fight for the little guy, whether she punches a clock,  whether he works in a diner, whether she works construction, whether he  works in manufacturing or works in a nursing home.

And when we don`t, as a party -- we have got to show we`re fighting for the  little guy. We don`t do that enough. That`s what that ad is about. It`s  about the dignity of work, respecting all work, no matter what you earn, no  matter where you work, that the dignity of work is what drives this country  and gives people a decent standard of living.

And we have too often forgotten that.

MATTHEWS: I hear it from you. And I hear it from Bobby Casey or Marcy  Kaptur, people like that, the people from that part of the country.

I grew up in Pennsylvania -- actually, Philadelphia, which isn`t exactly  Pennsylvania.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: But all the way across of that area, and yet that is the -- that  is the grounds for 2020 as well as, isn`t it?

BROWN: Yes, sure it is.

MATTHEWS: You have got to win that back.

BROWN: Sure, it is.

I mean, we could win the popular vote by five million, but we have got to  win Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin and Michigan.

But, I mean, it really is, though, talking about workers, talking about the  dignity of work, and showing -- showing the voters, showing -- and I don`t  talk about Clinton voters and Trump voters. I don`t talk about black or  white or Latino workers. I talk about workers.

And I think that`s how you pull people together.

MATTHEWS: Democrats used to be really -- Bill Clinton was really good at  this.

He used to say, I`m for people to work hard and play by the rules. That  sent a message to people. I`m not for welfare. I`m for work. I`m for  people with jobs getting a little better break. They would say things to  liberal Catholics like me, I`m for making abortion safe, legal, and rare.

That appeal that seemed to get to the center of the country politically  doesn`t seem to be there lately.

BROWN: Yes. And we should have -- I have introduced a bill…

MATTHEWS: The ability of talking to people where they`re at.

BROWN: Yes.

And you want -- and you want it -- you want it -- when you have had -- you  mentioned that tax bill at the beginning and how it really is just a  giveaway to the rich, instead of building infrastructure.

I said to the president at the White House with a group of a dozen  senators, look at my Patriot Corporation Act. It says, if a company pays  decent wages, provides good benefits and makes in the United States, like  the suits made by union workers 10 miles from my house, if you do that,  then you get a lower tax rate.

That`s the -- that`s the kind of government people in Ohio want, a  government that`s responsive to workers, that helps our country, that  provide -- brings prosperity to our communities.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about this Supreme Court thing coming up, because  you`re a senator. And you`re going to get to decide this thing.

How do you like -- you met with Kavanaugh today. There he is, Brett  Kavanaugh. What do you make of the cut of his jib right now? Where do you  worry about him? What are you thinking about him?

BROWN: I talked to him about worker rights. And I talked to him about  women`s health. And I talked to him about the CFPB.

And I talked to him about health care. And to me…

MATTHEWS: Is in the bag with the corporate world?

BROWN: Yes.

I mean, I -- he says he isn`t, but, I mean, I think his history has shown  that. There`s a reason the president appointed him, nominated him.

And I -- five million people in my state have a preexisting condition, five  million people. If this -- if the narrative on this court nominee --  nomination is that he will repeal the Affordable Care Act and take away  that consumer protection, he could go down, because, overwhelmingly, people  in this country, regardless of your party, care about -- care about  preexisting condition and know we need consumer protection.

MATTHEWS: I think health care is the -- is one of the big things the  country counts on the federal government doing something about.

They made not be able to get you a job tomorrow morning, but they can look  out for your health care and preexisting condition. Can we save Obamacare  without the -- without the individual mandate? Will it last?

BROWN: Yes, because Congress will make some allowances if the Democrats  win next year.

But it`s hard. But, I mean, clearly -- clearly, the Republicans have not  lined up to eliminate preexisting conditions.

MATTHEWS: No, people love Medicare.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Yes, of course they do.

MATTHEWS: They love Social Security a lot. They like Medicaid for people  that need it, like long-term care.
We got to win that fight on health care for everybody.

BROWN: And candidate Trump promised not to raise the eligibility age  Medicare or Social Security, even though, to pay for the tax cut, they have  already started to think about raising the eligibility age for Medicaid and  Social Security.

MATTHEWS: Good ad. Keep fighting, Senator.

BROWN: Thanks.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: If I could ask people to share it, to go to SherrodBrown.com, and  share that ad about the dignity of work, because it`s so important.

Thank you.

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