MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Interview with Gov. John Kasich

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Joining me right now is Governor John Kasich of Ohio.

Governor, what do you make of what you saw today in Helsinki?

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: Chris, unbelievable. Right? I mean, so sad. I did some interviews earlier. And look, you and I come from the same stock. And we have never seen an American President do this. Stand on a stage with a Russian, former KGB and kind of compare our intelligence community to the Russians. And all this has been said. It`s a sad day.And Chris, you know, the one thing that I -- as I said here and reflect and  listen to all this, this is not a time for Democrats and Republicans to  start, you know, I told you so or any of those other things. This is a  time for Republicans and Democrats to adopt a traditional model, which is  the strong America, belief in our allies, the critical importance of the  western ethic.

And perhaps there are some things that Congress can begin to do. Perhaps  Republicans who now are starting to become critical. You know, that they  begin to speak out. They begin to take control.

I was in Washington last week talking about my great concern about the  fraying of the relationship, the G-7, NATO, the fact that these things have  gone very poorly. Nobody said anything about it. And you know, when you  don`t say something about the G-7 and then you head to NATO and that was a  bumbled meeting as well, nobody said anything. So where is the surprise  here that he would go and ad-lib all this? It`s just a sad day for our  country. And I`ll bet they`re trying to figure out how to put the  toothpaste back in the tube. But I just hope the damage can be repaired.

MATTHEWS: Governor, what`s in it for the President politically? I mean,  he is a politician and you are a politician. But it`s hard for me to see  the win here. Why does he want to look like he is surrendering to Putin`s  worldview? To Putin`s word, taking him at his word when he is a KGB  professional intelligence officer of the worst kind who knows how to lie  right to your face. Why is he saying I believe the guy or I believe him as  much as I believe my director of national intelligence Dan Coats? What do  you say about that? How do you get him to stop doing that?

KASICH: Chris, I don`t know. Maybe it is because people around him have  not spoken directly to him. You know, there`s a problem with all leaders,  CEOs, you know, big-time leaders that there`s a sense that underlings  cannot talk honestly to a leader.

And you know, you know about 13 days when Kennedy said they had groupthink,  when everybody thought the same and how dangerous that is. Nobody is  intervening. No one is saying enough is enough.
And so I don`t understand it, Chris. I can`t figure out why they didn`t  step up and correct some of the things that he is doing. You don`t do it  in public. You do it in private. It`s pretty astounding. And we hear it  across the board.

Here`s the real interesting question. What is the Republican base going to  say? Now, we had a county chairman here in Ohio in a little township or a  county called Belmont County, who said today, I have had enough and he has  resigned. But where is the base going to be? Are people just going to  look the other way? Because now we are talking about critical issues that  affect the future of our country and the future of the western alliance.

MATTHEWS: Well, here`s a hero for you. Senator John McCain had very  strong words for the President after what happened in Helsinki today.

Quote "today`s press conference in Helsinki," this is John McCain, "was one  of the most disgraceful performances by an American President in memory.  The damage inflicted by President Trump`s naivete, egotism, false  equivalence, and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate. But it  is clear that the summit in Helsinki was a tragic mistake."

Your thoughts on that, on John McCain.

KASICH: Well, I mean, Chris, you know, you and I love John McCain. We  don`t care what party he is in. He is a bit -- it`s sad that his voice has  been somewhat muted. That means others have to speak up. And you know,  sometimes you have got to start alone.

You know, I was at the press club last week talking about my concerns. I  have been doing it now for almost two years, right. As you know, I didn`t  go to the convention. I didn`t endorse because I was worried about these  kinds of things happening.

I don`t want to be in a position to say I saw this because I was hoping  that none of this was going to happen. All I`m asking for are my  colleagues to begin to stand up and be heard on trade, on NATO, more than  just passing some non-binding resolutions. Start taking some action  because it`s our country. And the sacrifices that so many people have made  to preserve the liberty and the spirit of America.

MATTHEWS: Let`s talk about that. Because the Republicans that I`m  impressed by almost all of them, from Charlie Dent to John McCain to Jeff  Flake, all across the country, but the only voices are those who are not  going to face Republican voters again in all likelihood. Will you face the  Republican voters and run for President against Trump?

KASICH: I don`t know, Chris. I mean, I don`t know what`s going to happen  here. I don`t know where the base is. I don`t want to be in an election I  can`t win. I don`t know. All of my options are on the table. They remain  on the table.

But what`s important, Chris, is that we start getting some Republicans to  emerge. There just can`t be a few of us. There has to be a greater group  who begins to assert themselves because as we know foreign policy, love of  our country, at its best is bipartisan. So some of the Democrat leaders  that want to take shots, why don`t you just shut up and begin to work with  some Republicans and let`s be united as a country, not practicing partisan  politics either way, either side.

MATTHEWS: Right. Well, if the lip-syncing in Helsinki`s not going to do  it, I can`t think what will. But Governor John, my friend. Thank you so  much, governor, for being a strong voice tonight.

KASICH: All right, Chris. Thank you, sir.

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