NBC News "Meet the Press" - Transcript: On State Budgets
Interview
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The crowded G.O.P. field makes it that much tougher for any of these so-called "establishment" guys to dominate. New Hampshire is do or die for two candidates hoping to emerge as an alternative to Trump and Cruz. Governor John Kasich of Ohio and Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. And both are joining me this morning. Let me start in Ohio with Governor Kasich. Governor, good morning to you. Welcome back to Meet the Press.
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
So, New Hampshire, do or die for you? Is that fair? Are we saying this correctly? And what does "do or die" mean? Win? Or just be the first guy after Trump and Cruz?
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Well, we want to be the story, Chuck. And let me just tell you that we're on the ballot now in over 30 states. We also have husband our resources well enough where we're actually going to be pricing a television ad up this week. It shows that, you know, people just keep counting me out. They have all my career. We just keep plugging along. And so I want to be a story. And if I'm a story, I believe I'll win the nomination if I come out of New Hampshire in a strong position.
CHUCK TODD:
The assumption is that you're fighting with three other candidates in New Hampshire sort of for the same type of New Hampshire voter. And that's Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, and yourself. Let's start with the governor who's surging right now, which arguably is Chris Christie. Why is he surging right now and why are you struggling to keep up with him?
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Well, look. The latest poll we had right before Christmas put me one point out of second place. So Chuck, I mean, you have all kinds of polls, but the last one that came out, the independent poll, put me one point behind Rubio. And just seven or eight points behind Trump. So we believe we are surging. And we do have a great team. And you're going to see it because of what we have on the ground with great enthusiasm.
CHUCK TODD:
But it doesn't say why is it the fact that you've, voters in Ohio give you high marks. Voters, for instance, in New Jersey, give Governor Christie low marks. In New Hampshire, that hasn't mattered. Why?
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Well, I don't know. You know, here in Ohio, we have a balanced budget. They don't over in New Jersey. Our credit has been strengthened. Their credit has been downgraded. We've got more jobs. And then beyond all of that, always the hit is, well, you know, he has a Republican legislature. But I was chairman of the budget committee when we balanced the budget and Bill Clinton was president.
So I can't explain it to you other than in Ohio, there's great optimism about the future here both economically and also the sense that everybody has a voice here in the state. Why it's happening in New Jersey, I don't know. But when you look at the records, you know, frankly Ohio is one of the fastest growing and strongest states in the country with even rock-solid pensions, which most states don't have. And so I guess that's it.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this. A Republican strategist said this about your candidacy. I thought it was interesting. "He's been trying to be aggressively bipartisan, and that's kind of not where the Republican electorate is. He's trying to be aggressively responsible, and that doesn't seem to be resonating that much in the polls." Is that what you're finding out?
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Well, again Chuck, I have to tell you. We are, like, one point out of second place. So it is resonating. And secondly, you know, the thing that's happening is the voters think the whole system is gamed, okay? And they think that the rich people, the special interests get all the voice and they have none.
And I am the voice of people who have never been listened to really very much throughout my entire career, both in the Congress and as governor of Ohio. And that's the message that I have in New Hampshire and people who are worried about their jobs or their children getting the job, I'm the one that stands up and speaks for them, including those folks who live in the shadows. So we feel very good about where we are in New Hampshire. And, you know, I won't be the comeback kid. I'll just be the story coming out of that state. That's what we all believe and we're hoping for.
CHUCK TODD:
You've been one of these candidates that says you're going to support whoever the Republican nominee is. But you had an ad that essentially created an allusion to Donald Trump and fascism and the Nazis. Given that you ran an ad like that, how can you feel comfortable supporting Donald Trump as the Republican nominee?
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Well, first of all, that's not what that was about. It was a P.O.W. who served in Vietnam and Hanoi Hilton was tortured for five years, who said the country needs to be brought together. The country shouldn't be divided. And I've been arguing all along that we have to have real solutions to real problems.
And people who divide, or for that matter, people who have no experience. Chuck, let me tell you this. Republicans have run around for seven years saying this: "I can't believe we picked a one-term, United States senator who has no experience to be president." I just sometimes wonder whether the party's got amnesia.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, but you didn't answer the question on Trump. Why are you comfortable, why would you be comfortable supporting him as the nominee?
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Because we've got a long way to go to the nomination. I don't believe he'll be the nominee. Secondly, I'd like to see his positions become more positive. Because I'll tell you this. If he comes into Ohio as a divider, he can't win. And what I want to do is beat Hillary Clinton. We need somebody that's going to lift people and unite people.
CHUCK TODD:
Before I let you go, I'm going to ask you about the Tamir Rice decision. The grand jury decided not to indict the police officers involved in that shooting. You said protesters need to be heard. So let me ask you. What did you hear?
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Well, they're very frustrated. That's why we've created a police and community collaborative. You noticed that we have no violence in Cleveland with the second controversial decision. The credit goes to the community leaders, also to the mayor. And the fact is, the people in Cleveland are saying, "Well, this is frustrating, you know, we don't want to tear our town down."
In addition, our Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor is beginning to look at the whole grand jury process. So we've been ahead of the curve on this. Let's just hope that the situation can continue and it can be peaceful, even though people still are disgruntled and want to protest.
CHUCK TODD:
I was just going to say, Governor, you called it a controversial decision. It sounds like you don't agree with the grand jury's decision.
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
I don't comment on grand jury decisions. This is for the people in Cleveland to decide. But people are on both sides of the issue. You know, they feel very strongly. It's a loss of a 12-year-old life, and of course it's going to be controversial, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Governor John Kasich, Republican from Ohio.
GOV. JOHN KASICH:
Happy new year.
CHUCK TODD:
Happy new year to you, sir. Thank you. Thanks for being on. Well, let me turn to now a little bit south of Ohio and into Kentucky, Republican Senator Rand Paul. Senator Paul, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Thanks for having me.
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