MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Congressman Tim Ryan on Jeb Bush's New Economic Plan

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Joining me tonight is Congressman John Garamendi. He is a member of the
House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.

First of all, I`d like to get your reaction to the unconfirmed report that
an American hostage has been killed in a Jordanian airstrike. What`s your
response to that, sir?

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI. (D) CALIFORNIA: Well, I think you just heard from
others that it`s not at all confirmed. It would be tragic if we`re to
happen.

And these are obviously a very, very dangerous situation there both for --
because of this ongoing fighting war really in some very serious. And at
the same time, hostages are just simply being executed, murderously so by
these -- by ISIL.

So it`s extremely dangerous. Hopefully, not true. Hopefully, we`ll be
able to get that hostage back but it`s a very, very dangerous situation in
the area and it really cause for us to get on with this authorization to
use military force.

SCHULTZ: Well, that is really the key at the hour.

First of all, Congressman, do you think we`re at war and what is the
definition of war if we`re, you know, using military intelligence, we`re
using military hardware and we`ve had a bombing campaign against ISIS since
August?

Isn`t this a war against ISIS? And I want you to -- please answer that but
also how big a fight is this going to be for authorization for the
President to continue these operations?

GARAMENDI: Well, we`re most certainly are at war. If you are on the
receiving end up a bomb, you know you`re at war, if you`re delivering it,
you`re also at war and we`re clearly at war here.

The use of the 2001 and the 2003 authorization to use military force are
simply outdated. So we do need a new authorization to use military force.
I`ve been saying this since the very beginning of this, since last summer,
the constitutions` very clear, only Congress can authorize war and this is
most definitely war.

The President recognizes that. He is going to put forward a new
authorization to use force. Actually, we`ve introduced one on the House
side Adam Schiff of California, the Ranking Member of the Senate
Intelligence Committee has a new authorization to use force and it has some
very important elements in it.

First of all, it has a three-year limitation. We need that. We just
cannot have perpetual authorizations that allow the administration after
administration to do whatever they think they might need to do.

Come to Congress, make your argument. Tell us what it`s going to cause.
Tell us the general outliner, how you`re going to pursue it.

My particular position, no boots on the ground. I don`t want to go back to
another Iraq situation or even Afghanistan situation.

Certainly, the use of air power, limited use of Special Forces, all of
those things will be necessary but at most importance -- is that the
surrounding countries...

SCHULTZ: So...

GARAMENDI: ... get engaged in this. It is their war much more so than it
is ours.

SCHULTZ: Well, there`s no doubt that Jordanians are now engaged in a big,
big way. I want to get your response to that but let`s go back to exactly
what this authorization would mean?

Will there be a fight in Congress that would limit the President`s ability
to put boots on the ground?

GARAMENDI: I hope so. I`ll be part of that fight. I don`t want the
President to go put mechanized forces, infantry brigades on the ground in
that area. We`ve done that before.

Those boots on the ground of that kind are going to -- in my view, have to
come from Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, other countries that are at risk from this
ISIL...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

GARAMENDI: ... program.

Now, it will be a fight in Congress, there is no doubt. Senator John
McCain, the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee has made it
clear. He wants to put boots back on the ground in that area. I disagree.

SCHULTZ: Well, do you think that the Republicans would hold-off on
authorization unless everything was left on the table at the discrimination
of the Commander-in-Chief? I mean, do you really think the Republicans are
going to help this President out in this situation when the military action
would be confined and very well-defined about what we could and could not
do and what many people are calling a war?

GARAMENDI: Well, I think you`re going to see this play itself out. I`m
not sure about the Senate but I do know in the House that there are
significant number of members of the House on the Republican side that want
to have a limited authorization to use military force, something along the
lines that I`ve already described. Whether that is...

SCHULTZ: Yeah, but...

GARAMENDI: ... a majority or a minority, we don`t know yet. A lot will
depend upon the specific language in the authorization.

SCHULTZ: Where do you think the Democratic caucus is on this, John? Do
you think that the Democrats don`t want boots on the ground at any cost?

GARAMENDI: Well again, it`s the definition of boots on the ground. I
think a few talked about infantry brigades, armored brigades, heavy
artillery, those kinds of things that would be the normal things you would
expect the U.S. Army to do, boots on the ground. I think that would be
significant opposition.

Probably, a very significant majority of the Democratic and I think a
significant minority of the Republicans. We`ve been down that path before.
We`ll see.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

GARAMENDI: The Senate, I couldn`t tell you where the Senate is on this. I
do know that there are deep concerns about going deep into war once again
in Iraq and now in Syria.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, what about the Jordanian airstrikes and their
resolve to get revenge and their engagement now, is this a game changer of
sorts?

GARAMENDI: I think it is. I think it`s a very important thing. They did
do airstrikes previously in Iraq and I don`t believe they were doing them
in Syria. But this clearly is an escalation on their part frankly, I
welcome that.

I think they are also taking very significant steps with the United States`
assistance in securing their boarder. They don`t want ISIL creeping into
the Jordanian area. Similarly, Saudi Arabia is doing that.

So, very significant ways, these countries are beginning to gear up for the
protection of their own interest. Whether that means they`re going send
military units on the ground into the area remains to be seen, but clearly
the airstrikes are welcome but that`s not universal.

I think the UAE is backing away for a while as our couple of other gulf
countries but they may reengage here...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

GARAMENDI: ... in the near term. Clearly, Iraq government is reorganizing
itself. The United States is playing a major role in getting that army
backup on its feet.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

GARAMENDI: Not yet there but making progress.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, I want to turn your attention to the uncertainty in
dealing with Ukraine.

French and German leaders met with Vladimir Putin today and it`s not really
clear how much progress if any was made on the peace talks. And the
Ukrainians are asking for military hardware. They want United States
assistance, United States arsenals at their disposal. Are your for that?
Should we be arming the Ukrainians to fight the Russians?

GARAMENDI: I think there are some things we need to do before we go into
that. That really puts us in a proxy war with Ukraine in a big way. Not
that we`re not there already, we are but in a very limited way. But this
is big time and this is a major, major upgrade of that proxy war.

So we ought to be careful. I would recommend that we do what Senator Sam
Nunn recommended in a meeting that we have with him. Retired to be sure,
but also an expert on Russia and that is that, we ought to think a
diplomatic step here first. We ought to make a clear to Putin that this is
something that will not be tolerated by Europe, by NATO and that an
escalation is in the offing if Russia continues to do what it is doing and
that is sending heavy arms and military into Eastern Ukraine. So we ought
to be very clear...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

GARAMENDI: ... that this not going to be tolerated, that there is the
potential for escalation. But we ought to make that a diplomatic step
before we move forward and really do make a very serious proxy war on the
boarder of Russia, which Russia looks at...

SCHULTZ: Well.

GARAMENDI: ... in a far different way that we might imagined.

SCHULTZ: And finally Congressman, but haven`t we done that? We have told
Putin repeatedly to basically stop arming these people. The Ukrainians are
getting slaughtered, they want to fight back. They don`t have the hardware
to do it and they`re asking United States to, you know, do a deal on
arsenal so they can defend themselves. Sanctions have not gotten Putin to
back off. What diplomatic effort would be made that would turn Putin
around, you think?

GARAMENDI: Well there`s one that you just mentioned, that`s taking place
now or just finish and that is Germany and others from Europe sitting down
with Putin and making it clear that this is getting -- this is going to get
really serious. And that not just the United States but I fully expect the
European countries to participate in making those weapons available.

I do know that in -- Lithuania, in that area, we are upgrading our
presents. Those are NATO countries. We`re going to upgrade our military
presence in those countries. We`re already doing it in Poland. We can see
a significant upgrade of the American military presence on those Eastern
European countries that do board Russia. So this is a...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

GARAMENDI: ... this is a very serious situation and we need to be
careful...

SCHULTZ: OK.

GARAMENDI: ... we need to be very firm and we need to take every
opportunity to make it clear as Germany and -- her ally, our allies are
doing in that conversation with Putin. There needs...

SCHULTZ: All right.

GARAMENDI: ... to be me more that. And we need to be very, very clear
that we are headed towards arming and providing certainly defensive and
maybe offensive weapons to Ukraine.

SCHULTZ: OK. Congressman John Garamendi on the House Armed Services
Committee, good to have you with us tonight...

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: ... on the Ed Show. I appreciate your time. Thank you, you bet.

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