CNN "The Situation Room"- Transcript:
Interview
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MIKE HUCKABEE, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, if we go back eight years ago, Rudy Giuliani was 2-1 over the next challenger, who was Fred Thompson. The eventual nominee was John McCain in the distant fourth place. Four years ago, Rick Perry was 2-1 over the next potential challenger. And that was either Michelle Obama or Mitt Romney.
So to look at the race right now and say, oh boy, things are in a mess -- no, they're not. They're exactly where we hope them to be. We're focusing on organization. We've got the largest organizations going, the most deep-bench structure in both Iowa and South Carolina. And that's how you win a nomination.
[18:10:16]
BLITZER: One of the things that's clearly helping Donald Trump is his strong stance on immigration. He says he wants to do, for example, do away with the so-called birthright clause in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution that automatically grants citizenship to children born in the United States, even children of illegal immigrants. He would like to build that wall along the border of Mexico. He says Mexico will pay for that.
What do you make of -- have you had a chance to take a look at his immigration plan? What is your reaction?
HUCKABEE: Well, honestly, I don't spend as much time talking about Donald Trump as you guys do. I'm focused on my message. You know, what I've said is we've got to secure the border. That's got to be done before we start talking about what do we do with all the other components of immigration?
But one of the things that I think a lot of people have not understood, until you take economic incentive away from not only the employee but the employer for illegal immigration, you're going to keep having it. And one of my reasons for advocacy of the fair tax, which is a tax on consumption is that it removes the economic advantage to both the employer and the employee for illegals. I think it is the kind of thing we have to be doing if we're serious about solving this issue.
BLITZER: Well, without mentioning Donald Trump's plan on the substance, would you deport 11 million or 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States?
HUCKABEE: I don't see how that's realistic. I'm not sure that that's necessary. I don't think we ought to have amnesty. I don't know of any of the Republican candidates who advocate open amnesty.
But there's got to be first some confidence that we're controlling our borders, which there isn't any confidence. We can do this. Seventy-three years ago, we built a road between British Columbia and Alaska. It was a 1,700 mile road, and we did it in less than a year with engineering capabilities of 73 years ago, and during an arctic winter.
To say that we can't secure our border is ridiculous. We can if we have a president who makes that a priority and who absolutely says let's get it done. And I would do that.
BLITZER: What about the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which the courts have said automatically grants citizenship to children born in the United States, even if their parents are here illegally?
HUCKABEE: Well, I think that's going to require a little bit more discussion. The fact is that we have operated under that assumption really since the 1800s. And to change it, it would require some strong will, either on the part of the president.
The biggest issue is not changing so much how we interpret the 14th Amendment. It is making sure that we start enforcing our own laws. And we do need to deport people who have committed crimes. We don't need to continue to have a lax enforcement of the borders. We need to get rid of sanctuary cities. These are commonsense things that a president can do if he wants to.
BLITZER: Let's talk about Hillary Clinton for a moment. There is now video of her meeting with some Black Lives Matter protesters. We heard her tell the protesters they're going to need to come together to demand change, but they need to change laws because she said you're not going to be able to change everyone's heart. Do you agree with her on this?
HUCKABEE: You know, I've dealt with race issues my whole life. And quite frankly, I think it is more of a sin problem than a skin problem. There are injustices in our culture. I fought them as a governor. Before that, 35 years ago, I fought them as a pastor when I integrated an all-white church and did so against death threats.
So, I understand how people have great passions. But I also understand the way you begin to resolve them is you do it by loving people and treating people with dignity and respect. And you don't do it by magnifying the problems. You do it by really magnifying the solutions. And when I hear people scream "black lives matter," I'm thinking, of course they do. But all lives matter. It is not that any life matters more than another.
That's the whole message that I think that Dr. King tried to present. And I think he would be appalled by the notion that we're elevating some lives above others.
BLITZER: Governor, we have much more to discuss. I want to take a quick break. You're in Jerusalem. We'll come back. More with Governor Mike Huckabee right after this.
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[18:19:25]
BLITZER: We're back with Republican presidential candidate Mike. He's Huckabee in Jerusalem talking to Israeli leaders about the Iran nuclear deal.
Stand by for that, because right now, President Obama is losing some more Democratic support for that agreement.
Our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, is traveling with the president on Martha's Vineyard. That's where the president is on vacation.
What's the latest development in the story, Jim?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they expected Bob Menendez to defect on this Iran deal, but the White House says President Obama remains engaged on this agreement, even while he's vacating here on Martha's Vineyard.
And despite this bipartisan opposition that is building up on Capitol Hill, aides to the president are confident this agreement will survive.
[18:20:04]
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ACOSTA (voice-over): The list of Democrats coming out against the Iran nuclear deal is growing. This time, it's the Senate Foreign Relations Committee former chairman, Bob Menendez.
SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: But if Iran is to acquire a nuclear bomb, it will not have my name on it.
ACOSTA: But Menendez, whose announcement was expected, is hardly the biggest setback of the week. That distinction goes to Republican Senator Jeff Flake, who likely ended White House hopes for any bipartisan support for the deal.
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: The president and the administration is saying that it does not tie our hands, but the plain text of the agreement seems to do so.
ACOSTA: But the president, who was out at the beach today on Martha's Vineyard, is not throwing in the towel just yet.
A White House official said the president is engaged on the issue, adding, "We remain confident that ultimately a majority of Democrats in both the House and the Senate will support the deal."
That's critical, as Republicans face an uphill battle, needing 11 more Democratic senators to defy the president, vote to block the agreement and then join GOP efforts to override any presidential vetoes, which explains why Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was quoted by reporters in Kentucky as saying "The president has a great likelihood of success."
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: New deal. New deal.
ACOSTA: But Republicans in the race for the White House vow they will have the final say and tear up the deal once they enter the Oval Office.
FIORINA: Until you open every military and every nuclear facility to real anytime/anywhere inspections, the United States of America, without anyone else's permission or collaboration, will make it as difficult as possible for you to move money around the global financial system.
ACOSTA: The deal's critics say Iran is still dangerous, noting this tweet saying from the ayatollah saying Tehran will take all possible means to support anyone who fights Israel.
RUBIO: It guarantees that Iran, run by a radical Shia cleric with an apocalyptic vision of the future, will possess a nuclear weapon and a long-range missile capable of hitting the United States.
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ACOSTA: Now, White House officials insist that the number of Democrats who support this deal will start to grow as senators and House Democrats start to announce that they're coming out in favor of the agreement.
As a matter of fact, that happened earlier today when Rhode Island's two Democratic senators said they will back the deal. And aides to the president insist, Wolf, that the bottom line has not changed, that the Republicans simply just don't have the numbers to block this agreement from actually coming into fruition -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jim Acosta, thanks very much.
And we're back with Governor Mike Huckabee, the Republican presidential candidate who's joining us from Jerusalem.
Let's talk a little bit about some of the controversy you caused not that long ago when you suggested that this U.S./U.N.-brokered nuclear deal with Iran was, in your words, "marching Israel to the doors of the oven."
How has that been received in Israel? Because that is clearly a reference to the Holocaust.
HUCKABEE: Well, it was the Iranians who brought up the Holocaust. They specifically said they've developed a missile system and they're ready to deliver a Holocaust to Israel. For 36 years, that government has said they would wipe Israel off the face of the map.
What I'm speaking about is the inherent danger that exists by our capitulating to the demands of the Iranians, giving them a deal that inevitably will allow them to have nuclear material. We violated every single thing that we said was a prerequisite in this, whether it was "any time, anywhere" inspections, whether it was that they couldn't have any enrichment, whether it was that there was unlimited access to the inspections. None of that turned out to be true. We caved in on all of it.
We don't even have our hostages back. There are four Americans sitting in an Iranian jail.
And as a result, this is a tragic deal in which we've now sided with the Iranians, who represent about 15 percent of the world's Muslims, versus the Sunni Muslim countries, which represent about 85 percent of the Muslims.
BLITZER: What is your alternative? The president says you and the other critics have no alternative to the current plan.
HUCKABEE: Well, that's the president's problem. Reagan said trust but verify. This president says trust but vilify. Vilify everyone who disagrees with him and pretend there's no other solution.
But the real solution would have been continue the sanctions, make them even tougher, begin to help the people who would like to overthrow the regime. And most importantly, on our own domestic side, ramp up energy production so that we're exporting energy. We change the marketplace of Europe, Africa and Asia by exporting the energy and become the competitor to Russia, the Iranians and to the Saudis. Change the balance of power, and bring that prosperity to America and bankrupt the bad actors like Iran.
BLITZER: On another issue, a very sensitive issue -- I want to give you a chance to respond and clarify where you exactly stand. You're getting a lot of criticism for suggesting -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- the other day that that 10-year-old girl who was raped by her stepfather, that 10-year-old girl should not be allowed to have an abortion. Should be forced to have that baby.
[18:25:17]
And I guess a lot of people have been suggesting if this were your daughter, God forbid, how would you respond if that were to happen to her by a relative, let's say?
HUCKABEE: Wolf, as I've said, it is a tragedy, no matter whose daughter it is. It's a horrible thing when a person has this kind of pregnancy. But we don't help that person by compounding the problem by
taking an innocent life. In this case, the life of the unborn child. We either believe it is a person or we don't. It is not that I'm lacking in sympathy, but I'm also believing that one of the worst things that we do is to create and compound the problem by taking the life of someone who has nothing to do with the sin and the tragedy.
And I don't think anybody who really looks at this understands that if a person is a person -- period -- then you're either pro-life or you're not. And I mentioned to Dana Bash the other day on this network that I once worked for a man some 40 years ago who was the product of a rape. His mother was raped and attempted three times to have him aborted. She couldn't find a doctor willing to do it. Thank God she couldn't. because he turned out to lead a Christian organization that now provides food, water and existence for literally hundreds of thousands of people across the world. People who would not have their lives had it not been for the fact that he has his. And he wouldn't have his had he been aborted.
BLITZER: So what would you say to that little 10-year-old girl?
HUCKABEE: You know, I don't know that I would sit down and say to her, look, this is what you have to do. I would say to her that what has happened to you is a terrible, horrible tragedy. We're not going to abandon you. We're not going to leave you alone. But we want to help you through this. We don't want to have yet another mistake, another problem, another tragedy by taking the life of the unborn child that is within you. And let's hope this child ends up doing something terrific and wonderful in the world and defies the very crime that created him or her.
BLITZER: I just want to be precise. So you disagree with, let's say, Donald Trump and other Republicans, conservatives who oppose abortion, but they have exemptions. Rape, incest, the life of the mother. You say there should be no exemptions, no exemptions at all. Is that right?
HUCKABEE: Well, Wolf, when you say the life of the mother, if you're talking about saving the life, you try to save every life. Sometimes in the course of medical practice, a doctor may not save every life that's in the room, but he's going to try to save every life. What we're talking about with abortion, is not that you couldn't save a life. It's that you decided not to and that you actively took the procedure that would end a human life.
And if I'm different than my Republican opponents, then so be it. But I feel like we've got to be consistent. If we think that's a human being, and we come to that conclusion, then the conclusion is that all humans matter. There is no such thing as a worthless person. There is to such thing as a person that does not have intrinsic worth and value.
I personally know a number of people who are products of rape. And one, Rebecca Kiessling, who is a delightful mom and attorney in Michigan would be the first -- you ought to have her on the show and ask her how she feels about the idea of saying that a person is the result of a rape, that they really don't matter and they should not have been allowed to live.
BLITZER: Well, let me be just be precise. If the doctor says to the woman, the baby will be okay but if you deliver the baby, you will die, you would say what?
HUCKABEE: Look, I would say the doctor has to make tough decisions. And the doctor is still going to try to save everybody. He may not be successful. That often happens in cases where a doctor is desperately trying to save -- whether it's one patient, two patients or everyone in the E.R. after a tragedy. But you don't blame the doctor for trying to save everyone. You don't blame him if everyone doesn't get saved.
What we're talking about is something very different when there is an intentional desire and action that results in the life of a human being.
BLITZER: Governor Huckabee, thanks very much for joining us.
HUCKABEE: Thank you, Wolf.
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