MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Authority to Shape Military Engagement with ISIS

Interview

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Let`s bring on Senator Johnny Isakson. He`s a Republican from
Georgia. Senator, thank you for joining us.

What do you -- how do you -- this is like -- it`s like a mathematical
explosive model, where one side says, We want more restrictions in the
weeks ahead, and the other side says, We want less in the weeks ahead.
They`re going away from each other, rather than coalescing. How do we get
a deal?

SEN. JOHNNY ISAKSON (R), GEORGIA: I think Angus...

MATTHEWS: (INAUDIBLE) bill to pass.

ISAKSON: I think Angus is right. The Foreign Relations Committee
will do this. Bob Corker and Bob Menendez are deliberative. We`ve already
had conversations about it. We definitely need to fill in some of the
blanks, and I think the Foreign Relations Committee will do that.

But rest assured, a lot of us want to make sure we do this right
because getting it wrong will not be good for America and not be good for
American interests.

MATTHEWS: Do you think it`s fair to say that this is for the next
president? I mean, won`t you have the opportunity if -- well, we`ll have a
new president, this president`s term-limited -- sometime in the late part
of next year, you could write a whole new resolution for the next
president. So this wouldn`t really be governing the next president, would
it?

ISAKSON: Well, it would end at the beginning of the next president`s
term. But look, here`s the way I see it. The president has demonstrated
less than the necessary appetite, in my opinion, to go after ISIL.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

ISAKSON: And I think this resolution is going to protract (ph) what`s
gone on in that part of the world. American people are tired of seeing
young folks like Ms. Mueller, burned like pilot from Jordan...

MATTHEWS: I agree.

ISAKSON: ... Jordan burned and beheadings. You can`t negotiate with
people or use diplomacy with people that`ll kill you that way. You`ve got
to kill them in return. And we need a commitment to do exactly what the
president has said he wants to do, and that is destroy ISIL. And the only
way you do that is with military action.

MATTHEWS: Do you think the language of this authorization can make
the president more aggressive?

ISAKSON: I think it needs to make the presidents more specific. We
need to know what we`re getting into. If the goal is to degrade and then
destroy, we need to give him the ability to destroy. If he does not want
to use that ability or if he limits it by rules of engagement or time or
whatever, then we`ve got a problem on our hands.

MATTHEWS: Do you see -- you`ve obviously thought about this, Senator.
Have you thought about how we, using the ability of the tools we have --
air power, we`ve got special forces, we`ve got the Kurds, who are great
fighters -- what else we got? We got certainly now the Jordanian air
force, which is gung-ho since they had their guy burned alive. We don`t
really have a hell of a decent, even a reasonably decent uncorrupt Iraqi
government or army.

What -- who`s going to do this fighting when it comes down to taking
territory and holding it? Who`s going to do that?

ISAKSON: Well, if it were my choice alone, first of all I`d put a no-
fly zone over Syria to protect the people we trained in Syria to go after
the Assad regime. That`s number one. Number two, I`d give our military
ground forces the opportunity to do what they have to do. We already have
5,200 on the ground in Iraq right now supporting the air war. It may take
a few more, primarily in terms of special forces. We ought to do that.

We need to degrade and destroy ISIL, and eventually, it ultimately is
going to take a coordinated effort between the air, between the ground and
between all military units and the Arab countries that surround us.

MATTHEWS: But who takes the land? Who takes back that part of Iraq
and that part of Syria from the bad guys, the ISIS forces, and turns it
over to whom? Who gets the new land we`re taking back from the bad guys?
That`s what I -- that part of that, that critical part, doesn`t seem clear
to me in the strategy.

ISAKSON: well, that`s a very perceptive question because if you
replace Assad, who do you replace him with? We`re, first of all, trying to
train a Syrian army that can go in and to fight the old Syrian army and run
Assad out. And then that -- that, of course, is going to pique the
interest of the Iranians, which is a whole `nother issue in that part of
the region.

MATTHEWS: I know.

ISAKSON: But doing nothing, not going after them, not deciding we are
going to destroy ISIL is not a good policy for America or...

MATTHEWS: I agree. I agree. One thing I agree on, Senator -- it may
not be important what I think, but it does matter to me. I don`t see a
strategy for victory against ISIS yet anywhere.

Thank you so much for joining us, Senator...

ISAKSON: Good to be with you, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia.

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