MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Trans-Pacific Partnership

Interview

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SCHULTZ: So the Democrats are saying and those who opposed the TPP and the
President having fast-track, that this trade deal, this trade promotion
authority would threaten food safety, affordable medicine and American
jobs. Corporations get a pay out, the middle class gets left in the cold.

But the White House simply is not seeing it that way. They want this deal
and they`re in the 11th-hour down the stress to try get it to happen.

Joining me tonight, Congressman Peter DeFazio of Oregon, also with us
Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Great to have both of you with
us.

Congressman DeFazio, you first, we`ve had this conversation in the past but
now you have seen firsthand some information. Did it change your mind that
all about what`s unfolding here?

DEFAZIO: Well, if I listen to -- they have truths and I didn`t know the
facts, might have been convinced. And he said Korea on which this is
principally based is a wonderful success that has created jobs in the auto
industry.

We`ve exported 20,000 more cars to Korea. I said, well, how many more cars
have they exported to the U.S. since the agreement went into effect, and so
why don`t have that information.

Well, its 460,000. So, 20,000 U.S. cars there, 460,000 were here.

SCHULTZ: So, let me get this straight.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: You mean to tell me that the person that`s doing the deal didn`t
know the statistics and the numbers from the last deal that was suppose to
be so great when you call them on it.

DEFAZIO: Well, Ed, they only look at exports. That`s all they want to
talk about because...

SCHULTZ: OK.

DEFAZIO: ... they don`t admit that it`s -- the deficit that counts, that
is the balance. If you export 20,000 autos and you import, you know, a
million, you`re losing jobs but...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

DEFAZIO: ... if they all know, we exported 20,000.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Dingell, it seems to me, and correct me if I`m
wrong, that the White House is only doing this because they know they got
to have votes.

And so, you`re only going to see information if it sway your vote. Isn`t
that somewhat condescending? What`s your take on that?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL, (D) MICHIGAN: Well, I`m -- totally with my colleague
here and have been very strong about this in the very beginning. I come
from Michigan where I`m standing up in the working men and women of my
state and by the way, labor and business are together with there is no
currency manipulation included in the discussions.

What we`ve heard because as my colleague just said, they`re not telling us.
We`re not supposed to know to much about this...

SCHULTZ: OK. But I want to know about the White House, Congresswoman. I
mean, it seems like no one in Congress was given any information until the
White House recognized, "Hey, wait a minute, we don`t have the votes."

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: Don`t you feel like you`re being somewhat used there?

DINGELL: Well, absolutely. I wish they have been talking to us for a long
time. I was begging for information as I was being torn in (ph). And when
you do ways the issue of currency manipulation which by the way with the
yen, 120 to a dollar, gives an $8,000 cost advantage for vehicle, that the
Japanese are make -- Toyotas making more money and currency manipulation...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

DINGELL: ... importers (ph) in worldwide operation. There is a problem
and the White House doesn`t want to talk about that.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman, what about this?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: Peter, I got to ask you this.

DEFAZIO: OK.

SCHULTZ: Did you come out of that meeting thinking, "Hey, this is
classified, nobody can know this?" I mean, are we really -- is this really
classified information?

DEFAZIO: Well, we`re only talking about what we heard in the open session.
We`re not talking about the classified session.

I didn`t go that. People that went said, "Hey, they didn`t say anything
different on the classified session...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

DEFAZIO: ... than they did in the open session before the causes."

SCHULTZ: OK.

DEFAZIO: So we`re not revealing anything but, Ed, on currency manipulation
which is a big deal to these advantages. Chinese, Japanese and others,
they don`t want to include that because Wall Street doesn`t want it
included because they say a new profit center for them by dealing with this
currency speculation and when they get entry into these markets.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman, can your mind be changed?

DINGELL: No, it`s not.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Dingell, can you change your mind on this? Is
there a way that you would go with the President on this?

DINGELL: And let`s say includes currency manipulation in this trade
agreement and they`ve made it clear that they`re not going to. I don`t
know who sent me to Washington to represent, (inaudible) next to working
men and women of the auto industry and they`re being screwed by this trade
agreement.

DEFAZIO: Yes.

SCHULTZ: Well, it -- but it doesn`t address a state disputes. I mean,
isn`t that a big issue as well?

DEFAZIO: Go ahead, Debbie.

DINGELL: No, you go ahead.

DEFAZIO: The -- yeah. I was -- well, sorry, I can`t talk about that. The
investor-state provisions, if they reflect to pass agreements are
egregious. It allows corporation to have the standing of governments and
to actually sue us for having environmental laws, consumer protections,
labor protections and say that those things are impeding on their profits
or anticipated profits. Take us before secret tribunal.

And if they win the decision and this is happened to us on the past. We
have to either pay them penalties or we have to change our laws.

SCHULTZ: All right. And finally, Congressman DeFazio, maybe I haven`t
seen it or did pay attention at that. They`d come on top of it. Where is
Nancy Pelosi on this? And why is that she more vocal? And if the
Democrats in the House are so concerned about middle-class jobs, they ought
to be screaming from the top of the Capitol on this, your thoughts on that.

DEFAZIO: Well, our leadership is a bit divided. I believe that Leader
Pelosi is less far. I think she`s opposed but our whip, Steny Hoyer, is in
favor.

So, you know, there is a split and usually when the leadership split, the
caucus doesn`t take a decision so they`ve said it`s up to all of you.

Well, there`s about as usual 85 percent of us are opposed to it and they`re
fighting over getting a few Democrats.

Every one of these agreements has been amass of majority of Republicans and
it`s a small minority of Democrats and they`re just fighting Susan Dale
(ph) to get that small minority to fight that up, to split those people
out.

SCHULTZ: All right.

DINGELL: I like to say very quickly, Leader Pelosi was very strong in
pushing the administration to answer our questions directly.

I think she`s trying to be a leader and make sure all facts are out there
but I`ve been struck of how strong she is trying to lead us unknown with
the truths and effects are.

SCHULTZ: But, Congresswoman, don`t you think if Nancy Pelosi were in front
and center, in front of the cameras almost daily on this, it would have a
major impact on this deal?

DINGELL: I think, our first responsibility giving the roles who`s playing
between the White House and the caucuses to make sure we have the facts
that we can make the right decision. I think she sees where her caucus is
going in making the right decision.

SCHULTZ: I think, she is the leader of the Democrats in the House and I
think I have immense respect for her. She`s a great political leader but I
think, on this issue, there should be a little bit more forcefulness and
that`s just my take on it.

Congresswoman, great to have you with us. Debbie Dingell from Michigan and
also Peter DeFazio from Oregon here on the Ed Show, thanks so much.

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