CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports - Transcript

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports - Transcript
Tuesday, June 28, 2005

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BLITZER: Democratic Senator Richard Durbin of Illinois recently found himself blasted by critics for comments he made about the treatment of detainees at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, in Cuba.

Within days, Durbin found himself at the center of a swirling controversy. He wound up making an emotional apology a week after his initial remarks. Here are excerpts from both statements.

First, the one in which he quotes an FBI memo describing detainees chained to the floor without food and water. Durbin offered this assessment about how that information would come across to anyone who didn't know it was an FBI agent's witness account.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: You would most certainly believe this must have happened by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime, Pol Pot or others, that had no concern for human beings.

Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line. To them, I extend my heartfelt apologies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Senator Durbin spoke with me about that controversy and much more this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator Durbin, thanks very much for joining us. We'll talk about the president's speech shortly. But let's review the uproar following those controversial comments you made.

What were you thinking when you made that comparison to Nazi Germany, to Pol Pot, to the Soviet gulag? What was going through your mind?

DURBIN: I just read an FBI agent's report on some of the activities, alleged activities, at Guantanamo Bay. The interrogators who were involved in that report did some things that were horrible to one of the detainees, or even more.

And I was drawing the historical analogy that turned out to be very, very bad. It opened me up to criticism that I was somehow going after our soldiers. That was never my intention. It was all about the White House policy on interrogation.

And sadly, it led to a lot of comparisons that didn't apply at all. After four or five days of people questioning those words and my judgment, I took to the Senate floor and apologized.

BLITZER: It took about a week, to be precise. Why did it take so long? DURBIN: Well, at first I couldn't believe that people drew that conclusion. Even if they thought my words were improper -- and they were -- there was no comparison between those regimes and our soldiers, but merely raising questions about why the United States at this point in our history would abandon the Geneva Conventions, why we would reach a point, under the Bush administration, where we would have new interrogation policies and some of the terrible things that have resulted.

BLITZER: In your eventually apology, you wound up saying this -- I'll read to you what you said -- "Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line. To them, I extend my heartfelt apologies." You clearly believe that your remarks crossed the line, I suppose, right?

DURBIN: Well, let me tell you, when you reach the point of an apology, you're clearly apologizing to anyone who was offended. I apologized particularly to our troops.

I think that's what touched me the most. I've been out to Walter Reed on unannounced visits. I've seen these soldiers. I've met their families. I've attended the funerals at home. I just did not want anyone to think that my critics were right, that I was somehow criticizing our soldiers and their families. I was not.

BLITZER: But looking back, you clearly believe your remarks did cross the line?

DURBIN: Well, now I understand it. At the time, I thought it was just an historical analogy to others that had used torture. But it brought up so many negative images, I clearly went too far. It was a poor choice of words.

BLITZER: Let me read to you what the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said in reacting to your controversial remarks. He said this. He said, "Some people always in their lives say something they wish they hadn't said. We just watched Jane Fonda run around trying to recover from the things she did and said during the Vietnam War. And I just think that that's about all I have to say about him, is that he said some things, and he's going to have to live with them."

And others have made the point that your remarks were widely reported on Al Jazeera throughout the Middle East, the Arab world. I wonder how you feel about that?

DURBIN: Well, I think there were a lot of my critics who's tried to blow these remarks up as much as they could and to run them in some aspects of our press over, and over, and over again. I think they bear some responsibility, too. That speech might never have been noticed but for that activity on that side of the media.

But having said that, I apologized. I stand by my apology. I'm sure Secretary Rumsfeld wished there were words that he had said, even before our invasion of Iraq, that he could have back.

BLITZER: Are you calling on him to apologize for something? DURBIN: I'm not in the apology business this week. I really want to get down to business for the people of Illinois and for the soldiers and veterans that are counting on me.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the president's speech tonight. Would you like to hear him announce some sort of exit strategy, a timetable for a U.S. military withdrawal from Iraq?

DURBIN: That's not going to happen. It's not likely. And I'm not sure it's the right thing at this moment.

But let's be honest. If things are going according to plan, if the president tells us they're going to plan in Iraq, it's time for a better plan. We've lost 1,734 soldiers. Over 13,000 have been seriously wounded. It has cost us hundreds of billions of dollars. There is no end in sight.

Our soldiers deserve better. They need a plan for success. They need an administration that is honest about the costs of war, human and otherwise, and they need full accountability and oversight on Capitol Hill. Sadly, that's not happening.

BLITZER: So what specifically do you want to hear from the president tonight? What should he be doing differently, if you don't want him to simply cut-and-run and pull out U.S. troops from Iraq?

DURBIN: Well, there was a bipartisan letter sent to the president today by Senator Carl Levin, a Democrat, Senator Susan Collins, a Republican. And I think they hit the nail on the head.

They said the president has to tell the Iraqi government in formation that they have to live by their own deadlines. And if they fail to meet those deadlines, we need to re-evaluate our commitment in Iraq. It's time for them to bear a major share of the responsibility for the future of their own country.

When Secretary Rumsfeld tells us it could be five, six, eight, 10 or 12 years before this insurgency ends, a lot of Americans shake their heads and say, "We never dreamed that this war would lead to this point."

BLITZER: The whole nature of the number-two role -- you're the number-two Democrat in the Senate -- do you feel your effectiveness as a spokesman for the Democratic senators, the minority -- you're the minority whip -- has been diminished because of this controversy?

DURBIN: No, and I can tell you that my colleagues from both sides of the aisle have come forward -- particularly the Democrats -- to encourage me, and they stand behind me, and they understand what happened. Even some Republicans in private have apologized to me for some of the things they said during the course of this flap. Some have come to me, and said, "Boy, I've said a lot of things myself I wish I hadn't said."

We understand that's one of the perils of public life. We all make mistakes. But I'm lucky. Being from Illinois and from the Midwest, we believe in pretty basic fairness. Once you've made a mistake, get up, dust yourself off, and go to work.

BLITZER: Senator Durbin, thanks very much for joining us. We'll continue this conversation down the road.

DURBIN: Thanks, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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