MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Investing in Higher Education

Interview

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Joining us now for the interview is Elizabeth Warren, Democratic senator from Massachusetts.

Senator Warren, I was trying to embarrass you.

WARREN: You did.

MADDOW: Oh, good.

WARREN: You did.

MADDOW: It`s hard to look at old tape of ones self, but you have been making consistent arguments for a long time on subjects.

WARREN: Well, this is what I see. This is what I really believe in.

For me, I was thinking about this as you were doing it. I grew up in a family that was really kind of out there on the ragged edges of the middle class. My dad ended up as a maintenance man. My mom worked minimum wage job at Sears and I ended up in the United States Senate.

How does something like that happen? Well, partly it happens because I went to public school, public university, a commuter college that cost $50 a semester.

I grew up in an America that was investing in its kids. An America
that said, you know, if you work hard, if you get out there and play by the rules, we`re going to make a public school alternative that is affordable and will give you a great education. And that opened a million doors for me.

And what -- the reason I keep fighting now is we used those opportunities back then to build a strong and robust middle class, really basically from the Great Depression until about the 1980s. We built that middle class. We built our hopes and dreams in it.

And then you hit the 1980s. And instead it starts to shift.

The Republicans say, you know, what we really have to do is we`ve got to open up a bunch of tax loopholes and the way we`re going to pay for that is we`re going to cut back on what we spend on educating our kids. We`re going to cut back on funding basic infrastructure, those roads and bridges and power grids that let businesses get started and move forward. We`re going to cut back on funding basic research in this country, that great pipeline of ideas that had built so much innovation and creation.

And so, we end up in an America today where most kids can`t pay for
college. Mom and dad cannot afford to write a check that`s going to get
them through college.

So, what happens? The American government says we`re going to lend you the money to go to college, but they don`t actually spell out what`s going to happen next. You`re going to pay back the cost of the funds. You`re going to pay back the bad debts, covering that, the administrative costs.

And then if you`re on undergrad, we`re going to charge you nearly double the amount you would have to do to cover all those costs, so that the United States government can make tens of billions of dollars in profits off the backs of our kids. That is obscene. And what it does is it further makes it tough for any kid to get a fighting chance.

So, that`s the heart of what this book is about for me, it`s the work I`ve been doing all along. And it`s the work I`m going to keep on.

MADDOW: The first piece of legislation that you filed when you got to Washington was on that student loan issue.

WARREN: Yes.

MADDOW: And we have to take a quick break, but when we come back I want to talk to you about whether or not the time you`ve spent in Washington makes you realize what you have to do win on that that you did not win when you first brought it up.

Can you hold on?

WARREN: Yes.

MADDOW: We`ll be right back with Senator Elizabeth Warren.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: It seems to me we are taxing students for the privilege of borrowing money to try to get an education. I think that`s obscene. I don`t think the student loan program should be designed, so that it`s making profits for the federal government. I think it is obscene for the federal government to be making profits like this measured in billions of dollars off the backs of our students.

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MADDOW: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts trying mightily to upset the apple cart on the issue of student loans last month in Congress.We`re back now with Senator Warren. She has a new book out called, "A Fighting Chance." You introduced this legislation on student loans as soon as you got to the United States Senate. It did not become law.

Do you expect to keep fighting on the issue how will you win in the future, given that you didn`t win in the past?

WARREN: Yes.

MADDOW: OK.

WARREN: Yes, and yes. So, it didn`t pass. But we`re going to introduce again, next month, and this time put a slightly different proposal on the table.

This one is going to be to deal with the $1.2 trillion in student loan debt that it`s outstanding. This is the high interest rate debt, high for undergrads, even higher for those who have graduate student loans, plus loans.

And the idea is we are going to propose taking all of the debt and refinancing it down to 3.86 percent, which is the interest rate that Congress just said less than a year ago is the right interest rate for student loans. So, bringing all of the student loans, the interest rate down and then paying for it, because you got to have a pay for it on this. Paying for it by saying we are going to close one of the big tax loopholes.

And that is, let`s pass the Buffett Rule. It shouldn`t be the case that billionaires pay less in taxes than their secretaries. But the reason I put it that way is because here is another way, now new look at that debate.

The United States government can invest, it can invest in billionaires by saying keep those big tax loopholes. Or it can invest in people who are frying trying to get an education.

And so, what I propose we link the two things to each other. Every dollar we pull in by closing the tax loopholes, so that we have the Buffett Rule in place goes directly into reducing the interest rate on student loans. We pull in more money. The interest rate goes down even further on student loans.

MADDOW: Are there any Republicans who you see on Capitol Hill who you see a glimmer of recognition in their eye when you talk to them about these issues. I think about my old friend Rick Santorum, with whom I had lots of differences of opinion on policy, would love to interview some time, but he talked about economic populism in a way that appealed to Republican audiences in the Republican primary. It`s why he got as far as he did. I don`t think it was being against contraception. I think it was being for working families being able to put food on the table.

Are there populist voices, economically minded Republicans who you think you might be able to work with on this?

WARREN: I think this is exactly what the next few months is going to tell us. This is going to be the outreach all the way across the board on this. Look, I wrote "A Fighting Chance" to talk about what`s happening to America`s families. And I do it with a lot of very personal stories, kind of behind the scenes and the fights we were in. What they were about.But also to talk about what`s possible. To talk about the things we should be able to agree on and win on.

And that`s why I said. So I like this idea on student loans, of saying, look. It is all about choices. Everybody wants to talk choices. It`s about choices.

We can choose to support billionaires or we can choose to support kids who are trying to get an education. The way that we spend our money as a country should reflect our values. That`s what this is really about.

MADDOW: The way that we do spend our money as a U.S. government reflects the values of campaign contributors.

WARREN: Yes, this is the problem we`ve got. The problem is Washington works for the big corporations. That`s exactly right, for the billionaires. For those who can hire armies of lobbyists and lawyers.Their voices are heard everywhere in the halls of Congress.

But what we have to remember is they have concentrated money, concentrated power on their side. It shows up. It gives them great advantage.

But what we have on our side. We have our voices. We have our votes. And as long as we stay active, as long as we stay engaged, we can win.

MADDOW: Is your position right now in the United States Senate a satisfying place from which to make those arguments. Part of the reason I want to play the old tape of you, to embarrass you. Part of it to show that you have been making the case in a different line of work, as an academic, as an expert, ultimately as an activist, before you`ve ever gotten to the U.S. Senate. I think about joining the U.S. Congress as the most frustrating thing in the world --

WARREN: No.

MADDOW: Because it doesn`t do anything.

WARREN: No. No, no, no.

You know, I talk about in this book. I do a whole chapter about fighting to get the consumer agency. Another chapter about setting it up. And sure, there were tons of frustration.

But remember where we were, four short years ago. There was no agency out there to prevent the biggest financial institutions from cheating people on credit cards, on mortgages. We got together and remember, the banks said we will kill that agency.

In financial reform, I talk about in the book, they were spending more than $1 million a day lobbying against financial reform. But remember, we won. Here is the thing.

Not only did we win. We got an agency that in the short time, it`s been alive, has already put more than $3 billion back into the pockets of families who got cheated on mortgages and credit cards. Now, the next time somebody tells me we can`t change anything, I have four words for them: Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

MADDOW: Right.

WARREN: We can change. We do change. All it takes is we get organized on our side. That`s what gives our kids a fighting chance.

MADDOW: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. The book is called "A Fighting Chance." And it`s a good book. It`s not a typical politician book. It`s actually good as a book.

Thanks for being here.
WARREN: Thank you.

MADDOW: Congratulations.

WARREN: Thank you.

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