NBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Debt Limit

Interview

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REP. LOUISE SLAUGHTER (D), NEW YORK: Oh, it`s a pleasure. Glad to
see you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Is there a way to change the rules in the House like they did in 1979 to make the whole debt ceiling debacle not happen again?

SLAUGHTER: You know, something really has to be done here. It`s really become a tool of blackmail and extortion, to tell you the truth, a blunt instrument. It doesn`t make any sense.

And there`s a section in the federal budget that`s known as the appropriate level of the public debt. And once the debt -- the budgets are agreed on by both Houses and ready to go, that figure goes in.

That is the debt limit, in my view. We could use that, is whatever that budget says needs to be spent, for that year. You know, we do the budget a year ahead for the following year. That should be the debt limit. And when we vote for the budget, it should take care of it.

Now, I know the Gephardt Rule certainly was a great improvement over what we had been doing. But I -- it`s been too easy to get rid of. And I`m very much concerned about that. I can`t believe, Rachel, what we`ve gone through and what the country has gone through.

These opposition people (ph) upended everything for three months and then to have to go through this again. And everything I`ve seen and heard indicates that we will go through exactly this again.

And I`m hoping that we can look to make some rules changes. We do rules changes in the House, the first session of the term. With any luck, we can get a new term and a new Congress and Democrats taking over and Nancy Pelosi speaker, and we can do something about this right away. But it really needs doing. No question about it.

MADDOW: When you see those conservative House Republicans who had been among those who were really pushing for the shutdown, among those who voted not to restart the government and to go ahead and hit the debt ceiling. When you see them say, they`re looking forward to round two, and they`re going to do this all over again, and we know that another set of deadlines is coming up in January and February, everybody, except them, feels exhausted and I think enervated by that prospect --

SLAUGHTER: And angry.

MADDOW: And angry -- I think you`re seeing that too. Well, the other thing that`s happening is this budget negotiation, which is supposedly not just about what the budget should be, but about the process. In that negotiation, whether or not you`re hopeful about how fruitful that discussion is going to be, is that the place where they could work out new rules, where we don`t keep hitting this limit?

SLAUGHTER: No, we would have to do a little bit deeper than that. They repeal Gephardt Rule and then brought it back. I think it was repealed in 2001, brought back in 2003, repealed again in 2011. That can be done.

But I -- my sense of it would have to be one of the House rules changes. I could be wrong about that. I`m not a parliamentarian by any means.

But I tell you I had a chance to talk with Senator Murray last week. We -- you know how Democrats feel, I think made it clear in the last debate where we are coming from. And to negotiate with Ryan on the Ryan budget, which is the one that passed the House, is terrifying to me. That budget did grievous harm to the things we care about in this country. They continue the $40 billion for oil companies to encourage them to do drilling but they don`t care a bit about taking away all the nutrition and WIC and programs for the poor.

But then we can get together and sing a rousing chorus of "Amazing Grace", I guess, and make it all right. It is really terrifying to me what`s going to come out of this conference.

MADDOW: It is interesting -- interesting that the Republicans who are critical of this whole press from the right, the far right Republicans who wanted shutdown and everything, they`re already saying that no matter what happens, they reject what comes out of the conference. They don`t expect there will be anything there?

SLAUGHTER: You know something, John Boehner is a mystery to me. I have to admit that. I have known him a long time. I have been here casually.

But when you got 233 members of your caucus why on earth would you let 20 or 30 of them run the place? I am puzzled, I wish I could ask him. Maybe I`ll try to do that.

But that doesn`t make any sense to me. And if I could tell you and I`m sure every member tells you that our Republican friend and other Congress persons from my state, Republicans, continuously tell us how they hate it. How they don`t want to do that, and how they would look to see it change.

And I can`t understand how we continue with this same very small percentage of his caucus having -- wielding such incredible power.

MADDOW: Congresswoman Louise Slaughter of New York, thank you for helping us understand this. I feel like we are all trying to become parliamentarians to find a way out of it. But thank you for helping us understand the process. Appreciate it.

SLAUGHTER: Let`s hope for divine interference. Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: That`s always the best way forward.All right.

SLAUGHTER: Yes.

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