MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Shots Near Capitol Hill

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Joining me now is the real Democratic and the real senator, Chuck Schumer of New York. Senator, a little levity doesn`t hurt today, I`ve got to tell you.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: You bet. We need it.

MATTHEWS: This whole question -- we need it. It`s a grim day, this poor woman, whatever her condition, is dead. We know that.

SCHUMER: Yes. We do.

MATTHEWS: Two police officers doing their job are injured. A young child, horrifically, had to witness this thing, a 1-year-old who`s going to have memories forever.

SCHUMER: Yes.

MATTHEWS: And it is going to be an iconic event that may have nothing to do with the shutdown. But talk about your city right now. What is the mood of Washington?

SCHUMER: Well, it`s pretty blue and pretty grim after what happened today. The one -- the one silver lining -- it`s not a silver lining, but the one good thing that happened is that our police officers, Capitol Hill police, were dedicated. Now, remember, they`re working. They`re not furloughed because they`re needed for our security, but they`re not being paid. And it didn`t diminish their professionalism or dedication to do their job one jot. We all admire that.

MATTHEWS: I do. Let me ask you about the Republican side. Looking across the aisle and watching or hearing -- I`m sure you`ve heard the buzz out of the Republican caucus, the lunch the other day...

SCHUMER: Yes.

MATTHEWS: ... where there was a lot of crossfire, friendly fire, you might call it, that`s been aimed at Cruz. He doesn`t seem to have a strategy figured out about how to...

SCHUMER: No.

MATTHEWS: ... end something he started.

SCHUMER: No. You know, he doesn`t have a strategy when he goes to the Republican caucuses. He doesn`t have a strategy when he goes -- when he speaks publicly here on the Senate floor.

And I will tell you, I have a good number of Republican friends, close friends across the aisle. When he talks to them privately, he doesn`t have a strategy. He`s been totally motivated by the Tea Party. The Tea Party always wanted to shut the government down, and they did.

And, unfortunately, they used very strong-arm tactics, particularly in the House, and scared people. One of the leading more reform-minded people who was trying to round up votes among the moderates, and now we seem to have more than enough votes to pass opening up the government, but while he was rounding up the votes, Tea Party forces would go to the people he was going to and say, if you do this, we`re giving you a primary.

So Ted Cruz doesn`t have a strategy. They have a bludgeon, and they have this desire, fanatical desire to end Obamacare, but they don`t have a strategy of how to do it.

MATTHEWS: Republican Congressman Marlin Stutzman of Indiana gave perhaps the most revealing quote about why Congress is paralyzed. He says that, for Republicans, it`s about saving face. They need some sort of consolation prize for what they have been doing. Let`s listen.

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REP. MARLIN STUTZMAN (R), INDIANA: We`re not going to be disrespected. And so that`s where we`re at today, where we have to get something out of this, and I don`t know what that even is.

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SCHUMER: Yes. It was...

MATTHEWS: wow.

SCHUMER: That was an amazing comment, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Well, the president picked up on that. His war room`s working. He picked up on Stutzman`s comments and referenced them in his speech already this morning.

SCHUMER: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Let`s listen to his reaction at Stutzman`s strategizing here.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you`re being disrespected, it`s because of that attitude you have got, that you deserve to get something for doing your job.

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MATTHEWS: And then came the Stutzman walk-back. A little while later, Stutzman`s office put out a statement that reads in part: "Yesterday, I carelessly misrepresented the ongoing budget debate and Speaker Boehner`s work on behalf of the American people."

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: I don`t know. But I guess he was trying to say in a tongue-twisted way, Senator, we have got to get something for all this grief, or what?

SCHUMER: Well...

MATTHEWS: What are they talking about?

SCHUMER: Well, here, they hurt millions of innocent people without a strategy, with just strong-arm tactics, and now they say they need to be respected?

The reason they`re not respected by most Republicans, every Democrat, and 80 percent of Americans is because of what they have been doing. They haven`t -- it hasn`t been that other people have disrespected them. They brought the disrespect on themselves. The way out of this -- and I don`t agree with John -- Senator Feehery over there.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHUMER: A large part of this blame is on Speaker -- a large part of this blame is on Speaker Boehner himself.He has let these hard-right people who he knows has no strategy, who he knows have no experience, who he knows are rather fanatical, run the show. And as long he lets them run the show, he`s going to have a miserable speakership, and they will not stop demands. The only way you deal with a bully is when you stand up to them.

And he`s got a lot of people in his caucus praying that he will. Ted Cruz is probably one of the least popular Republicans among Republicans here in Washington. And if he thinks that`s going to get him to be president, it won`t. It`s just the way things work. If you don`t -- if you show you can`t govern, if you show you can`t get along even with some of your most conservative colleagues, even the most rabid Tea Party person is not going to nominate him for president. I really believe that.

MATTHEWS: You are a gutsy guy. Let me ask you a simple question.How do you know people will follow you when you try to lead? Or do you have to take the chance and lead and hope they will follow you? What comes first here for Boehner?

SCHUMER: It`s a combination.

You talk to your colleagues and you see what`s really motivating them. And a lot of times, they wish you would lead, but they -- they`re not guaranteeing you they would follow. Then you have to take the gamble, lead, and usually they do follow. On the other hand, if you`re just on the wrong course, you should know that too. So you don`t just go out willy- nilly. That`s what Cruz did.

He didn`t talk to probably to more than three or four of his people. But you find out where your colleagues are. And if you detect, oh, gee, I wish they`d take the bullet for me, go forward, you go, and more cases than not, people follow.

MATTHEWS: Thanks so much, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York.Well, this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.

SCHUMER: That`s what -- by the way, that`s what Boehner should do. Please, please, Speaker Boehner, rise to the occasion. We need you now to do that.

MATTHEWS: Thank you, Senator.

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