MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Ted Cruz and ACA

Interview

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MATTHEWS: So why are so many Republicans from moderate areas like Staten Island and out in Wisconsin very hostile now towards the senator from Texas?

U.S. Congressman Blake Farenthold is a congressman from Texas. He joins us now. Congressman, there`s a lot -- I`ve never seen anybody out in the street there in front of the cameras calling another member of their caucus a fraud who`s going to lose their influence with the party, pretty strong stuff there from some Republicans in the Northeast and the Midwest.

Is this a Texas thing, Cruz, that he`s that far out? Or what is -- how`s your view of where he fits in the party?

REP. BLAKE FARENTHOLD (R), TEXAS: Listen, they better not mess with Texas! Nobody thought Ted Cruz could win election to the Senate against David Dewhurst, the lieutenant governor, who was so far ahead of him in the polls early on, he was thought to be unbeatable. But Cruz came through and pulled it off and won election to the U.S. Senate.

Now, Ted asked for the opportunity to take this up in the Senate. We gave it to him. And I wouldn`t be surprised if he delivers. I certainly hope he does.

MATTHEWS: How does he deliver? OK. Let`s get the reality here. I know you like him. You`re a loyal Texan from the Lone Star State and all that.

But is it the Lone Star State on this one? Because I wonder. It takes 41 votes in the Senate to basically stop a measure from getting to a vote. Does he have 41 votes to do that, not just a vote for Obamacare elimination, or whatever that`s about, but to actually stop this continuing resolution from financing the government? Can he do that?

FARENTHOLD: Well, listen, we picked up two Democrat votes in the House of Representatives today. We can hope Ted can get a few over in the Senate.

Listen, the American public has turned on Obamacare. And we have got senators up for election on the Democrat side who would be well to listen to their constituents and the American people.

MATTHEWS: So, why do you think so many Republicans up in the Northeast and Midwest are calling this guy no good? And these are pretty personal statements by people like Peter King. What is it about?

FARENTHOLD: Listen, a couple of them might be running against him for president already too.

MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you about the president. Is he eligible to be running for president? I have said he is. Do you agree?

FARENTHOLD: I wouldn`t be surprised.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: No, eligible. No, stick to the point, Congressman.

I said I believe he`s eligible. He had an American mother. No matter where he was born, you have an American mother, I believe you`re a natural- born citizen. Do you agree with that?

FARENTHOLD: Listen, we have had this discussion about President Obama, so...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Is this too complicated? I`m talking about Cruz. Stick to the point, Congressman, Cruz.

FARENTHOLD: He`s as eligible as Obama is.

MATTHEWS: Well, what does that mean?

FARENTHOLD: Obama is president. Ted Cruz can be president.

MATTHEWS: Well, what do you mean? Explain terms. This is serious business, Congressman. You`re chuckling about this.

FARENTHOLD: No, absolutely.

MATTHEWS: Is he eligible to be president or not? You have been touting the guy and said he could run for president. Explain. Is he eligible? You brought it up. I didn`t.

FARENTHOLD: No, I think he`s eligible. I`m giving you a yes answer.

MATTHEWS: So, if Obama was born overseas to an American mother, even if that crazy theory of Donald Trump is true, he`d still be eligible to be president, by that standard.

FARENTHOLD: Well, listen, we`re talking about Ted Cruz.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Can`t you project an inch mentally.

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: I`m telling you that President Obama is the president.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: No, no, you brought this up.

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Was he a legitimately elected president of the United States?

FARENTHOLD: I wasn`t in Congress to determine that. That was determined before I got here.

MATTHEWS: Well, when does Congress get to determine whether a president meets the standards of being a natural-born citizen? What would that formulation be? In other words, there`s going to be a vote in Congress sometime between now and 2016 whether Ted Cruz is legitimate?

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: It`s when the Congress accepts the electoral votes. That`s when it would have been timely to raise.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: And what would you have done?

FARENTHOLD: Listen, I wasn`t here.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Why are you afraid of this?

FARENTHOLD: I`m not afraid of it at all. I`m not afraid of it at all.

MATTHEWS: What is in the water down there? Say yes or no. Is Barack Obama a natural-born citizen?

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: I have said Ted Cruz is as eligible to be president as...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: This is -- this is the problem with your party. It`s gotten so far into the wacko bird. What`s wrong with saying Barack Obama is a natural-born citizen and therefore eligible to be president? Why can`t you say that?

FARENTHOLD: I`m saying President Obama is president. What else is there to say than that? We`re nitpicking over words here.

MATTHEWS: No, no, no, because you are playing a game once again of trying to somehow make him not quite the president. Yes, he got into the office. You`re admitting that. But he didn`t do it legitimately. Did he? Just say he did.

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: Say he did what? He`s president. He`s president. What more is there to say?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: OK. Can you repeat after me? He was legitimately elected president.

FARENTHOLD: President Obama was elected president.

MATTHEWS: Legitimately.

FARENTHOLD: The people elected him, yes.

MATTHEWS: Legitimate. So he was a natural-born citizen?

FARENTHOLD: I didn`t make that judgment when he was brought in.

MATTHEWS: OK.

Well, everybody watching knows what you`re doing. You`re dodge- balling.

Anyway, let me ask you about the United States government. What`s your view about this continuing resolution funding the government beyond October 1? Do you want that to happen or not?

FARENTHOLD: Absolutely.

We voted to fund everything but Obamacare. Of course we want to keep funding the government.

MATTHEWS: But Obama is part of the law of the land.

FARENTHOLD: And we`re Congress. Guess who gets the change the law of the land? Congress.

MATTHEWS: But you`re not changing it. You`re simply defunding it.

FARENTHOLD: No.

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: We are changing the law that grants the money to Obamacare.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let me ask you the same question I put to the other congressman.

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: The Constitution gave us the power of the purse. We`re exercising it.

MATTHEWS: Right. And that`s right. The Congress passed by 218 votes Obamacare. It was also passed by the Senate with 60 votes. It was filibuster-proof.

FARENTHOLD: Yes.

MATTHEWS: The president of signed it. It`s the law of the land. My question to you is, list the other laws that Congress has vitiated using the continuing resolution or the debt ceiling. What other laws or program has Congress killed in the way you`re trying to kill Obamacare? Just list one other case you have done it in history, just once.

FARENTHOLD: Again, we can do it. We have the power of the purse. Just because it hasn`t been done before doesn`t mean it can`t be done. I think the Constitution is pretty clear that the House of Representatives gets to decide where the money is spent.

MATTHEWS: Right. I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Congressman, you`re saying that, and it`s true by definition. But the question is, don`t come back and then say this is a fight you didn`t start. Don`t say the president started this fight by insisting on Obamacare being funded.

He didn`t start the fight. Ted Cruz started it and other people said, you know what?

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: I have never said that.

MATTHEWS: OK. Good. Explain.

(CROSSTALK)

FARENTHOLD: I`m against Obamacare. I want it to go away. And I`m fighting for what my constituents wants.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: And you`re willing to say this is a fight that Texans want. You have started the fight. Cruz is funding it. Cruz is leading it. And this is a fight you`re willing to take to the wall?

FARENTHOLD: Listen, we`re going to run this through the Senate, see what Ted Cruz -- happens.

The Senate is going to send a bill back to us and we`re going to decide what to do with it then, just the way the founding fathers intended it.

MATTHEWS: And what will you do?

FARENTHOLD: I`m tired of the backroom deals in the White House. I`m tired of Harry Reid and John Boehner going together in a smoke-filled room and deciding what it`s going to be.

The elected members of Congress, the House of Representatives have spoken. It`s now time for the Senate to speak.

MATTHEWS: OK. Last question, Congressman. It`s a good political question. And, by the way, congratulations on being elected to the United States Congress. It`s a great honor.

My question to you. It comes with the office. Who are you more loyal to, John Boehner or Ted Cruz?

FARENTHOLD: I`m loyal to the people of the state of Texas who elected me. I`m not loyal to any other politician.

MATTHEWS: OK. OK. Thank you for coming on, Blake Farenthold of Texas.

FARENTHOLD: Thank you.

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