BILL O'REILLY, HOST: "Impact Segment" tonight as we reported last night the far- left is trying to use the Colorado movie massacre to promote gun control. The brother of a young woman murdered by James Holmes was confronted by that last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MSNBC HOST: Do you feel compelled to push for tighter gun laws?
JORDAN GHAWI, BROTHER OF JESSICA GHAWI: Well, here's the thing. We can try to politicize this and make some sort of polarizing debate and make this a tenet of the election. But that's not what we are here to do right now. We are here to celebrate the lives of the victims that have been lost. If somebody's to do harm to somebody they are going to find a way to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: Then of course that's true. But it also makes sense for Congress to pass a new law that requires the sale of all heavy weapons to be reported to the FBI. In this age of terrorism, that law is badly needed.
Joining us now from Washington, Congressman Jason Chaffetz who disagrees. Where am I going wrong here, Congressman?
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R) UTAH: Bill, giving the FBI a master list of everybody who owns weapons in this country is not the right direction.
O'REILLY: Now do you think you just categorize what I said accurately everybody who owns weapons. That's not what I said and you know it?
I said, heavy weapons, all right. Mortars, howitzer's machine guns. In this age of terrorism, if you do a flight school, the FBI is alerted. But you can buy a machine gun and the FBI doesn't know. And you think that's responsible?
CHAFFETZ: No that -- well, first of all, I don't think that's absolutely not true. If you buy a fully automatic weapon, you have to go get a tax certificate from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in order to do that. You have to pass a fingerprint background check.
O'REILLY: Have you ever been to a gun show, Congressman? Have you ever been in a gun show?
CHAFFETZ: Yes, I have.
O'REILLY: You know, you can buy any weapon you want there and there's no reporting anyway; you can walk right out there.
CHAFFETZ: No. You don't have, you can't go out and just go and buy a bazooka as you suggest or a fully automatic machine gun. There are laws on the books.
O'REILLY: You can buy an AK-47 in this country and no federal agency will know you by it. And as the guy in Colorado proved, you can buy a mass amount of ammunition on the net, ok, and nobody is reported.
Look, here is my deal and you tell me where I am wrong. If you sell heavy weaponry -- all right -- semiautomatics, automatics ammunition, all you do is you file with the FBI. And that way the FBI can cross-reference, all right. Say the FBI has you on a terror watch list. And then it comes in that you are buying an AK. Well, the FBI is going to put you under surveillance.
Say this guy was bought 60,000 rounds in Colorado, which he did, and the FBI in Denver got wind of that, they would have been watching him. All right? This just makes common sense. It's not intrusion on gun rights.
CHAFFETZ: No you're not -- you're not going to sign -- you're not going to sign an FBI agent to follow each and every law abiding citizen.
O'REILLY: Did you get 60,000 rounds? He certainly will.
CHAFFETZ: You -- you cannot -- you cannot say that the laws on the books are not tough and stringent.
O'REILLY: Sure I can. The kid bought 60,000 rounds and no federal agency knew about it. Are you kidding me?
CHAFFETZ: You -- you -- you are not going to have an FBI agent who is suddenly trailing everybody in this country who buys what is -- whatever your definition is a large number of pieces of ammunition.
O'REILLY: Congressman, let me break this to you, let me break this to you, if the FBI is alerted that somebody is buying 60,000 heavy duty rounds, they are going to check it out. Because that's what antiterrorism is. That's what they do.
CHAFFETZ: Bill -- Bill, that's -- Bill that's why we have the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. We have a specially designated law enforcement officer --
O'REILLY: That kid's purchase on the Internet wasn't reported to any federal agency. That's why he was able to assemble that armor that he had. And you are telling me you -- you object to this? This doesn't intrude on any hunter, anybody with a handgun to protect themselves.
CHAFFETZ: Sure it does.
O'REILLY: Anybody with a rifle. This is an AK, come on.
CHAFFETZ: This is the -- this is the Second Amendment. You have a lawful and reasonable right to be able to go out and purchase weapons.
O'REILLY: The key is "reasonable". I'm not saying you can't purchase. Report the purchase in case it's a terrorist.
CHAFFETZ: But Bill, Bill you are ignoring the current law on the books. You are coming up with this wild definition of what is so-called heavy armament.
O'REILLY: Wild definition? An AK 47.
CHAFFETZ: Yes you are.
O'REILLY: That's not heavy armor? An AK?
HAFFETZ: There are rules, but there are laws on the books. You act as if you could --
O'REILLY: There aren't any federal laws on the book to report that.
CHAFFETZ: There are laws on the books. You are misinformed.
O'REILLY: No, you are wrong. There are seven states that require if you buy an AK and 43 that don't. Come on.
CHAFFETZ: No. Bill, you are totally misinformed. If you go to an FFL -- you go to a federally firearms licensee and you want to purchase, you have to go through a background check. If you want to purchase fully automatic you've got to go get an AK --
O'REILLY: There are more loopholes -- there are more loopholes in the gun purchasing laws in this country. All you have to do and you define it, not me. You define it. You are an honest man. You define it.
CHAFFETZ: That law, it does define it.
O'REILLY: No it doesn't.
CHAFFETZ: Yes, it does.
O'REILLY: This guy in Colorado got all this stuff and nobody knew about it. Come on. Come on.
CHAFFETZ: Everybody -- everybody wishes that we could wave our magic wand and this never ever happened. I remember when Gabby Giffords happened. I wish that had never ever happened. But the point was made by this guy's brother and others we are not trying to politicize it. The laws are on the book. President Obama is --
O'REILLY: I'm not trying to politicize it. I believe in the Second Amendment. I wouldn't even ban AK's. I wouldn't even go back to the Brady Law that they had. But I would report. And there is nothing wrong with that.
CHAFFETZ: The reporting is already there, Bill. You are misinformed.
O'REILLY: All right. If the reporting were there the FBI would have known about this guy in Denver and they didn't.
CHAFFETZ: And it wouldn't have solved this problem in this instance.
O'REILLY: Well, you're making two parallel arguments there. But it's a lively debate and we appreciate you coming on.
CHAFFETZ: Thanks Bill.