CNBC Capitol Report - Transcript

MCCAIN INTERVIEW ON CNBC "CAPITOL REPORT"

March 04, 2003 - CNBC - CNBC News Transcripts

SHOW: Capital Report (9:00 PM ET) - CNBC

March 4, 2003 Tuesday

Senator John McCain discusses the situations in Iraq and North Korea

ANCHORS: ALAN MURRAY; GLORIA BORGER

BODY:

ALAN MURRAY, co-host:

And here's how you responded to our very unscientific CAPITAL poll. Which country poses a bigger threat to the US? Thirty percent said Iraq; 70 percent said North Korea.

GLORIA BORGER, co-host:

And welcome back to CAPITAL REPORT. I'm Gloria Borger.

Our next guest is one of Washington's big power players. And Alan was just pointing out he was here on Alan's first show...

MURRAY: He was.

BORGER: ...and he's here on my first show. He's none other than Arizona Senator John McCain, who was a former Republican presidential candidate and, of course, an expert on military affairs.

MURRAY: Senator McCain's also one of the most important people to the business community i--in the nation, here in Washington, as chairman of the very powerful Senate Commerce Committee, and he joins us now.

Senator McCain...

Senator JOHN McCAIN (Republican, Arizona): Thanks very much. I don't know if my head will g...

MURRAY: Yeah. Have we--have we pumped you up enough here?

Sen. McCAIN: Thank you.

MURRAY: The--the first question I...

BORGER: It's over.

MURRAY: The first question I think is obvious.

Sen. McCAIN: Yeah. Yeah.

MURRAY: North Korea, Iraq--w--what is this administration, in your view, doing wrong with respect to North Korea?

Sen. McCAIN: They're not giving it the significance that it deserves. It is a crisis. The latest, the--as Jim Mik--Mish--Miklaszewski reported o--on this program, that coming to--the interception of an air--US airplane in international waters, which is fi--which was preceded by sending a jet south, which was preceded by--you know, there--there's been a long series of provocations. But most importantly, they are now--I--I hope that--that Secretary Powell is r--is right, that it was only a newspaper report, that they are reprocessing. They have now the ability to build six or eight nuclear weapons and not only is a threat to use them, but the th--we know they will sell anything to anybody. And we've--they have proven that time after time.

MURRAY: They are out there begging us--begging us with these acts to take them seriously. Don't we just play into their hands if we call it a crisis and get more worked up about it?

Sen. McCAIN: Well if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck, and this is a crisis. I would send Mr. Kelly to Japan--Se--Secretary of State to Japan. I'd say, 'How can I help you develop nuclear weapons because you are faced with the threat of nuclear weapons from North Korea?' I wou--you need to get the attention of the Chinese. The Chinese have to understand it's not in their interest to see a nuclear armed North Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc. And then I would go to the UN and sa--and ask for sanctions because they're in violation of the Nonproliferation Treaty.

I would take every measure necessary, and I would certainly stop giving them food and oil, which--with which they have propped up their military while they starve two million of their people to death. Look, it offended us when 500,000 people died in Rwanda. Isn't it offensive when the United States aid, the largest recipient of aid in Asia, North Korea--we give them I think close to $1 billion ourselves and our allies, and meanwhile, they starve two million of their people to death and they've got 2,000 people in a gulag, reminiscent of Josef Stalin?

BORGER: So do you think Colin Powell was underplaying North Korea in the interview we had with him because of Iraq? First of all, was he underplaying?

Sen. McCAIN: I think the attention--I think that the administration's attention is on Iraq and justifiably so because Iraq can turn into a North Korea. The--North Korea is the object lesson of why we have to--to take action against Iraq before they become incredibly dangerous.

BORGER: Well--well, let's switch to Iraq. They've got this terrible situation now in the United Nation Security Council. Should they have a second vote?

Sen. McCAIN: I don't--I--I think that's aa--calculation that the administration has to make. If they can get nine votes, then I think fine.

BORGER: And if they can't get nine votes?

Sen. McCAIN: If they can't, then I'm not sure I would pursue it. But that's something, really, that people like me are not well versed enough to know exactly what is the right tactic within the United Nations Security Council. What the Security Council has revealed itself is--is more close to a--to a bazaar, where the highest bidder is--is, you know, the all issues of national security and--and peace in the world seem to have disappeared in a bidding war.

MURRAY: But how do you explain the fact that we can't get Mexico to go with us, we can't get Russia to go with us after this friendship that's built up between the president and President Putin? We can't even get Turkey to reliably go with us. How do you explain that--this situation that we find ourselves in?

Sen. McCAIN: Some of it's hard for me to explain. The Russian thing I don't--I don't quite get. Maybe the president needs to look a little deeper into Mr. Putin's soul the next time. But Turkey, I--Turkey i--is a disappointment, but they're a democratic country and they are affected by their public opinion. They have been our friends, and they--we did get a majority vote. I--I hoped that we could get some resolution there. The Russians--I--I think that Putin is unhappy about abrogation of the ABM Treaty. I think they've all been emboldened by two things: one, the behavior of Germany and France and, of course, the--the unexpected rise in--in anti-war sentiment.

BORGER: Senator McCain, I just want to ask you very quickly one question about the capture of Shaikh Mohammed. You're a former POW. Can you tell us what's the right way to treat Shaikh Mohammed?

MURRAY: To interrogate this man who may have slit Danny Pearl's throat...

Sen. McCAIN: Yeah.

BORGER: Absolutely.

MURRAY: ...who--who knows what else.

Sen. McCAIN: We're outraged by this individual's behavior. He's a terrorist, he's not a combatant. At the same time, I think we found out in previous encounters, some of them by foreign countries, you better be careful about the use of torture. I'm sure the French in Algeria thought they were fighting a terrorist organization. The French have deeply regretted the use of torture. Every country that ever engaged in torture regretted it. Sleep deprivation may be appropriate and perhaps some other measures, but outright torture, I don't think we're going to do and I don't think we should--we should do. Le--let me just make--make one other comment. The capture of this individual proves that the United States is capable of pursuing the war on terror and addressing the Iraq issue. One of the major objections by the way of the opponents of engagement in Iraq just disappeared day before yesterday.

BORGER: Well, we're going to have to leave it right there for a second. We're going to come back in just a minute with Senator McCain, and we're going to ask him the question about why he thinks the Democrats should reject Al Sharpton as a serious presidential candidate. I can't wait to hear his answer.

MURRAY: And then coming up later, we're going to talk to an outspoken opponent of the war on why he should be considered serious presidential contender. That's Howard Dean. Stay with us. More when CAPITAL REPORT returns.

(Announcements)

Announcer: You're watching CNBC's CAPITAL REPORT. Once again, Alan Murray and Gloria Borger.

MURRAY: Welcome back to CAPITAL REPORT. We continue now our conversation with Arizona Senator John McCain.

Senator McCain, thanks for staying with us. You know, at this...

Sen. McCAIN: Thank you, and congratulations to Gloria on your first show.

BORGER: Thank you.

MURRAY: It's great having her here.

BORGER: Thank you.

MURRAY: It's great having her here.

BORGER: It's a lot of fun, at least this segment.

MURRAY: Yeah, you know, we d--we're doing politics, economics. We've got power and money all in one place, so this is the place you come when you want to make news.

BORGER: Money--start with the money.

Sen. McCAIN: Not to mention glamour.

MURRAY: Glamour, of course.

BORGER: Yes, you.

MURRAY: But let's talk a little bit about money because at the same time the president has these foreign policy crises on his plate, he's also trying to push through a very ambitious tax bill. You've been somewhat critical of that bill. Do you see any movement going on in the Senate towards a compromise that could actually pass?

Sen. McCAIN: I think there's negotiations going on everywhere. I believe that this whole issue of how much the cost of the war is going to be is impacting it and also the cost of a prescription drug program, so there are negotiations. There is cer--certain amount of agreement that we need to stimulate a poor economy. Many of us would like to see all of that devoted to an immediate stimulus. And then there's another question, Alan, that probably is a different part of this debate which hasn't been raised before: Is this the appropriate time, right when we're getting into a war, to decide when we don't know what the cost of the war is, to decide what--what tax cuts are appropriate? And I think that's going to enter into it if the conflict starts within a week or so, which is what everybody predicts. And I have no insight...

BORGER: Well...

Sen. McCAIN: ...within a week or two--which is information that I don't have any inside information. All I know is what I read in the papers.

BORGER: Well--well, let me ask you to answer your own rhetorical question. Is this the appropriate time?

Sen. McCAIN: I--I think that--that debate has to be made. The balance is, of course, do you wait...

BORGER: You think it's not, though? You think it's not?

MURRAY: Well, wait. But we're not--we're not going to do it now. You're not going to have a vote in the Senate on any tax plan until April at most.

Sen. McCAIN: We're going to have a vote on a budget. Alan, we're going to have a vote on a budget which will contain provision for the tax cut. That'll be the first step. They want to bring that...

BORGER: So would you say delay it.

Sen. McCAIN: ...up the s--second week. I don't know. I don't know. Because I think it would depend on h--wh--on its size and whether it was directed--who's been keeping the economy afloat? The people buying houses and cars, not the people who are worried about the dividends issue. I would like to see the stimulus focused on people who have been keeping the economy afloat.

BORGER: Ha--ha--ha--have you talked to other Republicans who are possibly interested in delaying the tax cut? You out there alone?

Sen. McCAIN: I've just--no, I've just seen a variety of opinion questions, whether it's appropriate now; if so, what the size is; if so, who should get it? And--and there's a lot of negotiations going on, including on the part of the administration with Democrats. I think it's in that very unsettled stage right now.

MURRAY: Let me change the subject on you a little bit, because we have as a guest tomorrow night, Sean O'Keefe, the administrator of NASA. You have been one of the few voices, maybe the only voice in Congress to raise the question of: Should we continue manned space flight? Are we getting anything out of this?

Sen. McCAIN: I think that's an excellent question. You could make a strong argument that the last Columbia mission, most of those tasks that they carried out in space could have been done in an unmanned mode. Also they didn't even go to the space station, as you know. The cost of--and frequency of--of a shuttle before the Columbia disaster had been dramatically reduced in numbers and dramatically increased in cost. I think that i--we need to have a series of hearings, and I know they're doing it on the House side, Sherwood Boehlert also, where long overdue policy debate is--is conducted. And what is the ultimate cost of the space station and what will be its ultimate purpose as well? So the costs have--have dramatically gone up from original estimates.

BORGER: Now, Senator, I cannot let a segment with you end without talking about politics, former presidential candidate. Every Democrat wants to be John McCain. True or false.

Sen. McCAIN: They seem--they seem to keep forgetting that I lost.

BORGER: But they do--haven't they all called you, Senator, or have many?

Sen. McCAIN: A number of them are friends of mine, I mean, that I talk to, you know, w--fairly often. I'm very good friends with John Kerry and John Edwards and Joe Lieberman. I just met Governor Dean who's coming on this program. I think he's carrying on a very dynamic campaign. Dick Gephardt, I have great respect for.

BORGER: What advice do you give them?

Sen. McCAIN: I--I d--they don't really ask me much for advice really. We talk about things like the Independent voters, how important they are, particularly in a place like New Hampshire. But most of them don't, you know, say 'What should I do?' They have--they have real smart people that give them that kind of thing.

MURRAY: One--one person you didn't mention there was Al Sharpton. You were quoted recently saying that the Democrats ought to repudiate Al Sharpton to show that they're not under the sway of the extremes of their party. What--what makes Al Sharpton so different than, say, a Howard Dean?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, I think that clearly Governor Dean has a record of service, elected as governor of his state and having a record of obviously very acceptable to his voters because he was re-elected. Mr. Sharpton has never been elected to office nor has Mr. Falwell or--or Mr. Robertson. And I think he represents an extreme and should be rejected.

BORGER: So you would like to hear Democratic candidates say that they will not stand there on podiums or debate Al Sharpton.

Sen. McCAIN: I--I--I don't pretend to tell Democrats what they should do. I just don't believe that--and I gave a speech in Virginia Beach, Virginia. I don't believe that Reverend Sharpton represents the Democratic Party any more than Reverend Falwell and Reverend Robertson did. That's--that's my position. But I don't pretend to tell the Democrats what they should do.

MURRAY: Senator McCain, thanks very much for being with us on CAPITAL REPORT.

BORGER: Thank you. Thanks for being here.

Sen. McCAIN: Thank you.

MURRAY: Good to have you.

And coming up next, will his opposition to the war let this man climb to the top of the Democratic presidential heap? Howard Dean joins us next. You're watching CAPITAL REPORT on CNBC.