Federal News Service - A Joint Hearing of the Commercial and Administrative Law and Constitution Subcommittees of the House Judiciary Committee

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: A JOINT HEARING OF THE COMMERCIAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE LAW AND CONSTITUTION SUBCOMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES POST-SEPTEMBER 11TH

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS CANNON (R-UT); REPRESENTATIVE STEVE CHABOT (R-OH)

WITNESSES: LEE HAMILTON, VICE CHAIRMAN, AND SLADE GORTON, MEMBER, 9/11 COMMISSION; JOHN MARSH JR., TECHNOLOGY AND PRIVACY ADVISORY COMMITTEE; NUALA O'CONNOR KELLY, CHIEF PRIVACY OFFICER, HOMELAND SECURITY DEPARTMENT

LOCATION: 2141 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:

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REP. JEFF FLAKE (R-AZ): I thank the chairmen, both Mr. Chabot and Mr. Cannon, for organizing this hearing and the witnesses for coming. I want to thank the 9/11 commission for its particular focus on secure sources of identification. That's been something that I've been concerned about for a couple of years, and I introduced legislation last year, H.R. 3461, to require states if they want their state driver's license used as a form of federal identification, or identification for federal purposes, that there has to be some kind of standards there, because as it stands if a state like California doesn't use the same kind of standards, or uses lax standards, it doesn't affect just the citizens of California, it affects all of us, because it's used increasingly-it's is the closest form of a national ID as we have. And when it's used for air travel and other things, there's certainly a federal nexus there. We also have created more of a federal nexus when we allow, with the Help America Vote Act, individuals states to allow them to use the driver's license as a form of identification to register to vote. So there is a federal nexus here, and I'm pleased with the commission's focus on this. I'd just like to get your thoughts on it and how quickly we ought to move to that. My bill specifically says if a state wants its driver's licenses used as a form of a federal ID, it has to have some kind of standard. And you also talked about the standards for birth certificates, because those are the so-called breeder documents that are then used to secure these forms of ID. Can you give some elaboration on those things? Mr. Hamilton?

MR. HAMILTON: Mr. Flake, thank you for the question. I think we do suggest in our recommendations that there be federal standards applied to these identification documents-birth certificates, driver's licenses and a lot of other things. That has to be seen in the broader context, and the context is that we need, we believe, a modern immigration system. And you have to look at all the ways that people get into the United States, and you need to stress biometric exit and entry system -- (audio break) -- air, access to information with regard to visitors and immigrants. You have to have in your intelligence community the ability to look at the indicators of terrorist travel. You have to develop an exchange of information with other countries, so that you can make for example a real-time verification of passports. And you have to involve a lot more local and state officials.

Now, all of those things go together with what you're talking about, and the secure identification of U.S. citizens becomes very, very important in letting the right people in and keeping the bad people out.

REP. FLAKE: What I found was quite striking as well, in Arizona my 16-year-old son just went and got his driver's license. His driver's license is good I think until he is age 65. He can get a driver's license theoretically-and he did-for 44 years. Now, somebody entering the country-for other states to do this-gratefully Arizona does this right-it doesn't any more offer a driver's license for a period longer than the expiration of a visa. But only 11 states operate that way. In other states that offer-and I don't know how many will allow you to get a 44-year license, but if you come on a student visa for six months or a year or two years, you can get a license for up to 20 or 30 or perhaps even 44 -- and there is your de facto ID. And when we know that two of the terrorists on 9/11 had overstayed, yet they had licenses from states that existed for longer than their visa. Senator Gorton, do you feel that's an important part as well, to ensure that a driver's license because it's used as a form of federal ID if you will, not be issued for a longer period than the stay of the visa?

MR. GORTON: Well, again, the commission didn't judge that idea, I think as Lee has said, to birth certificates and driver's licenses, because driver's licenses are the most common form of identity. And our concentration was on having uniform standards for them. You're talking about a form of uniform standards at least. We are concerned not so much about their length-though that is an important consideration-as their validity as really identifying who are person is. That's where our concentration lay.

REP. FLAKE: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.