MSNBC "Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Good to be here. Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Let me ask you about those polling numbers. Will public opinion change the course that Republicans are taking in the states?

BROWN: Not clear. I think--you start with the 2010 campaign, at
least in Ohio, and I assume in all the states with troubled economies, was
the campaigns were all about we"ve got to create jobs. Well, once these governors took office, again talking more about Ohio because I know more about Ohio, their emphasis is on the legislature, governor"s emphasis has been on restricting--many more restrictions on abortion rights, have been going after collective bargaining rights.

I mean, they"re really taking rights. They declared this on the middle class, taking rights from people and lost their focus on jobs. And I think the negative polling, by and large, has been that they are taking rights and they really aren"t paying attention to jobs.

That in a nutshell is I think why they are so grossly unpopular unbelievably quickly, which normally doesn"t happen for a new executive.

But I think in Ohio, what happens is there"s going to be a referendum on this. We don"t have a recall process under the law in Ohio, but voters can decide whether they want to accept this law. There will be 200,000 plus signatures, on petitions that will be gathered after Governor Kasich signs the bill that probably, if he will get a chance to sign, signs it into law, and this recall will likely take--this referendum will likely take place in November, and that"s when I think you"re going to really see a different direction in the country.

They"ve governed by ideology. They"ve not governed practically discussing jobs and they"re going to pay for it.

MADDOW: Well, I wonder about that--I guess that direct political utility of something like a referendum that you"re describing. Every time you look at anything economically populist making its way onto the ballot, particularly something like raising the minimum wage or something about the rights of people who work for a living, it tends to not only pass but pass by a lot, and drive Democratic voter turnout.

I wonder with that opportunity in Ohio to get some--the rescinding of some of these things on the ballot, if it is an opportunity for Democrats to actually claw back a lot of their losses from the last election, if it"s really going to drive likely Democratic voters to the polls.

BROWN: Yes, six Republican state senators, I believe it was six, voted against this repeal of collective bargaining rights. I think they already have begun to fear what this is going to mean politically for their careers personally and what it"s going to mean for their party because we go--we go to the ballot in November. We have this referendum. We repeal this collective bargaining--taking away of collective bargaining rights.

You see a whole new group of people voting for Democrats now, police and fire, who have not been so Democratic, and you see teachers and nurses and others instead of voting 60 percent, maybe they vote 85 percent Democratic, and that changes the whole equation, plus the kind of momentum.

One of the things that we are doing is we"re already starting to organize. I encourage people to go on my Web site, SherrodBrown.com/Ohio to help--to sign up and help us begin this referendum process. That doesn"t sign the petition but it helps us with the organizing. And I think you"re going to see organizing in my state and other places in whatever avenue they have, whether referendum recall or just organizing because they"re unhappy.

I think you"re going to see that--that we haven"t seen in this country in a long time. And people are driven by feelings of anger if they"re being targeted like teachers, but you"re seeing a lot of religious people and you"re seeing a lot of advocates for all kinds of rights and people who are just unhappy with what they are doing to the middle class and what they"re doing to people who work for a living.

And I think that"s a wave that the Republicans were not expecting a couple months ago that they"re now becoming fearful of.

MADDOW: In terms of national importance of this and whether or not it"s fully appreciated, also I guess whether or not this is going to translate into different politics on Capitol Hill as opposed to just in the streets of the state capitols around the country. There was supposedly a big national Tea Party convention this weekend in Florida. They had like 25 speakers, all of this entertainment, and all these A-list Tea Party folks. I think the turnout was something on the order of 300 people. Big, empty conference rooms full of no Tea Partiers.

Meanwhile, every day if you Google search on the term "Tea Party," especially about how it"s affecting national politics, the coverage is just as intense as it ever was, as if this is still a movement that is driving American politics. You got 100,000 people in the streets of Madison, you got five straight weeks of tens of thousands out in the streets of all these state capitols, the Beltway media in Washington, in particularly, doesn"t really seem to be catching onto the fact that this might a be a real grassroots--

BROWN: Washington, whether it"s the media or whether it"s the Senate and the House, they are usually the last to know.

But I think that"s right what you said. In Columbus, where they had these demonstrations and in places like Medina and Mansfield, my hometown, we had demonstrations in a county of 100,000, you have 500 or 1,000 people show up. There might be--I mean, I heard people say at the rallies 15 people across the street holding Tea Party signs. I mean, it really is--they are really overmatched.

The influence of the Tea Party is still felt among House Republicans in Columbus and in Washington, the freshmen that subscribe to the Tea Party on philosophy and agenda--they"re still there, still speaking out, they"re still voting with their legislative cards unfortunately. So, their impact is there, but our impact is longer term because, in the end, people in this country care about fairness. That"s why religious folks, that"s why nonpublic employees, labor unions and non-unions alike, people in the workplace who care about being treated decently in this society are coming to our side on it. I think it"s really clear.

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio--it"s always really nice to have you here. Thanks for coming in.

BROWN: Thanks, Rachel. Always a pleasure.

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