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BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: You run that risk, Bob. And I thank you for the chance to be here. And let me talk specifically about that law because the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, the cops on the beat overwhelmingly support that law. But it should come as no surprise that any number of people who advocate open borders and who advocate no enforcement of the law, including this current administration, are trying to throw up these roadblocks. So it's not surprising but it will not hold water. In fact, you can look at your own CBS News poll, where over half Americans interviewed said they believe that Senate Bill 1070 is the right approach. And, in fact, another group, what, sixteen or seventeen percent of Americans don't believe it goes fast far enough.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, you're absolutely right. That is what the CBS News poll shows. It shows a healthy majority favor this Arizona law. And I want to-- let me just-- since you brought it up, let me just ask the-- Governor Richardson about that. Are you surprised by that, Governor?
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON (D-New Mexico): Bob, no. I think that immigration is a very hot-button issue. It's divisive. But I think what that officer said shows that that law is unworkable.
And I'm pleased that the Obama administration filed a lawsuit for these reasons. One, it is going to lead to racial profiling. Anybody that looks Hispanic is got to be racially profiled. And it's as simple as that. Secondly, it preempts federal law. This is-- immigration is a federal responsibility.
Lastly, it's going to hurt our foreign policy with Central America, with Mexico. Six Mexican governors have refused to attend a border conference in Arizona. We're now going to hold it in New Mexico. It hurts America's image abroad. But, look, Bob, we need comprehensive immigration reform. I think those same people that are in your CBS News poll want to see the Congress tackle immigration reform which they refused to do because it's such a hot issue. And then I think if you present a plan that says, yes, we have to enhance border security with more boots on the ground, more technology, a path to legalization; not-- not amnesty but simply saying if the undocumented worker learns English, pays back taxes, pays a fine for coming here illegally, gets to the back of the line and you crack down on illegal hires perhaps with some kind of ID card to help employers that's what the American people want. And that's what I believe will be a semi-solution to this horrendous, divisive problem. This Arizona law is divisive. It's going to spread to other states. It's going to find ways to continue to divide Americans. It's racially profiling. And-- and my hope is that it gets struck down before it's implemented at the end of July.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, let me-- let me just point out one thing. This law does clearly state in one section that you can't simply pull someone over based solely on racial profiling. I know that because a lot of our viewers told me I should have made that clear last week when I interviewed the attorney general about this. But another section of this law says that an illegal immigrant who is on public or private property in Arizona is guilty of trespassing. So some lawyers are telling me, Mister Hayworth, that that alone is reason enough to pull somebody over. So what is
it-- what do you think this law says?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: I think the law is very clear, Bob, and I read it.
Unlike the Attorney General, or maybe now has Eric Holder-- did he tell you last week he's finally read the law? Because you remember, he testified to Congress and said he had not read it. But you pointed out the key phrase. There is no effort at ethnic profiling. The law itself says that the civil rights of all persons will be respected. And when it comes to a variety of lawyers I have to say this. The law is a bit like economics. Just as you could lay all the economists in the world end-to-end and still never get a conclusion. Of course, you are going to have-- you're going to have legal advocates largely on political arguments try to throw a monkey wrench into this. Here's the simple way to view it, Bob. Senate Bill 1070: the people of Arizona want to enforce federal law, President Obama wants to ignore federal law, and John McCain, and now it sounds like Bill Richardson want to erase federal law and want to erase immigration law and have amnesty or--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Well--
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: --as Bill calls it comprehensive immigration reform.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Let me ask you this. So it isn't the fact of the matter even from a practical standpoint, until some court gives more specific directions on how the police are supposed to interpret this law, nobody really knows how the police are going to read this law and isn't that the bottom line here? You've either got to have some instruction from the federal
courts or some sort of guidelines before we really know how-- the impact of this law?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: And ironic--
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON (overlapping): But, Bob, what's going to happen here is there are specifics in the law that says if the officer deems somebody to look suspicious, they can ask for their immigration papers.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: No.
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: I mean that is blatantly racial profiling. Who are they going to ask? They're going to ask somebody that looks Hispanic. They're not going to ask somebody that is-- that is not-- that-- that-- that looks like J.D. Hayworth. They're going to ask somebody that looks like me. And that's the problem with this law. It's unworkable. It's discriminatory.
Arizona should have pushed for comprehensive immigration reform. That's not amnesty. What we're--
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH (overlapping): You bet that is.
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: --looking at is a path to legalization--
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH (overlapping): It is amnesty.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Let-- let--
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON (overlapping): What are you going to do with the eleven million that are here? I think we need a path, not citizens--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Let-- let Mister Hayworth answer that.
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: You-- you know, there's so much out there.
And I appreciate Bill's political stance. And let's not be confused here. This is not a legal argument as much as it is a political argument. Democrats and other backers of amnesty, including my opponent, find themselves on the wrong side of this issue and so they're trying to throw up all these falsehoods about the law. The law is clear. The civil rights of all persons will be respected. And when you enforce the law, people obey the law. For example, the Arizona Republican notoriously opened borders newspaper carried an article within the last year featuring the governor of Sonora, our neighboring Mexican state. And the governor of Sonora was complaining that so many of his citizens were returning home. Why are they returning home? Well, because Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who's endorsed me, was enforcing immigration law.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Well--
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: When you enforce the law, people obey the law. Now, the left for-- using this false argument of ethnicity--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): All right.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: --wants to try and eradicate the law.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I need to go back to Mister Richardson. Governor Richardson, I've put the question to the Attorney General last week, just what his critics have been saying that the reason the administration filed this law was they were simply trying to find a way to brand Republicans as anti-immigration, and even worse anti-Hispanic. He said no that's not the case.
What is your response to that?
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: Well, look, Bob, if we're going to resolve this immigration problem it's got to be bipartisan. And I'm going to give credit to President Reagan and President George Bush, who tried to have comprehensive immigration reform the way I outlined it--with a path to legalization, cracking down on illegal hires, dramatically increasing boots on the ground.
And it's not politics. I think the Attorney General had to file this lawsuit because clearly what Arizona did is a federal responsibility. Now granted, I understand Arizona's frustration because we haven't had comprehensive immigration reform. We need more boots on the ground, more technology, more Border Patrol, more National Guard. We need a path to legalization because you've got eleven--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): But--
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: --million living in the shadows--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): --that's-- that's still ahead. And you--
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: --but it's not a-- it's not a price--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): --and you-- you know, else well as I do, Governor, that-- that-- that's not going to happen before this election. But let me ask you this, what do you we'll happen if this law does go into effect.
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: Well, what's going to happen is the country is going to be bitterly divided. Many other states are going to take steps like this when legislatures convene in January. There are, at least, ten other states with bills that are out there. It's not going to happen in New Mexico, but it's going to happen in states in the Mid-West. And-- and what you're going to see is potentially a constitutional crisis with so many states taking what should be a federal responsibility. My hope is that the courts stay this law, that it not take effect at the end of July, that we allow a comprehensive debate. You're right, Bob. It's not going to happen before this election. But it could happen in the lame-duck session. And, hopefully, a series of Republicans will step up because it's got to be done in a bipartisan way.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.
GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON: You can't just make it a political issue of Democrats alone. And I believe President Obama has shown leadership on this issue.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Hayworth, I'll give you the final word simply because time has run out.
And I want to ask you to be short. What do you think will happen if this goes into effect?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.D. HAYWORTH: I think people will see Arizona being successful. And they will ask why doesn't the federal government enforce the law? And they will see that President Obama and John McCain and Bill Richardson and other politicians who have viewed this as a political problem to be managed, instead of as an invasion to be stopped are on the wrong side of this issue. The American people demand that immigration law be enforced.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, I want to thank both of you for shining a little light on this. I think we have a little better understanding of what this all-- what this is all about. We're going to talk about another very controversial topic. And that is the NAACP condemning elements of the Tea Party for racism. We'll talk about that in one minute.
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