MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Good to be back. Thanks.

MADDOW: In terms of the logistics here, the House would need to pass

the Senate version of health reform first. They are reportedly a little

reluctant to do so until they are satisfied that the Senate really does

have the votes to pass the last fixes to the bill via reconciliation.

Can you assuage those concerns tonight?

BROWN: Well, yes, I think there"s--there"s no question in my mind

that we get somewhere between 52 and 57 votes, something like that, for a

reconciliation that actually improves the bill.

And, you know, I listened, Rachel to your--to all the Republicans

and the old Judd Gregg and the new Judd Gregg and the old Mitchell and all

that. You know, I tried to understand them better and put myself in their

shoes. And I think they look back in history and they understand that they

had to explain away their opposition to Medicare for two or three decades,

and it cost them at the polls.

And I think Republicans, the ones that are more--that are more--

have more insight than some of the others, perhaps, understand that they

vote no on this, they"re going to be explaining it 10 and 20 years from now

as a real bad vote, because this health care bill that we"re passing is

going to work for the overwhelming majority of Americans. And so, they"re

sort of protesting to--protesteth too much in some sense.

And I think they know that--you know, this may help them short-term

in one election, this opposition. But I think they know, as this bill

takes effect and helps people, helps small business, makes sure nobody"s

thrown off for pre-existing conditions, or the caps on coverage when they

got real sick and it was real expensive, and people back in 2010 lost their

insurance, that won"t happen in 2015 and "20 -- I think they know this is a

troublesome situation they"re putting themselves in. So, they want to keep

pushing back, keep delaying, keep stopping this any way they can.

MADDOW: Yes. It seems to me like in terms of political calculus for

the Republicans, the worst situation is if the bill passes and they all

vote no for it. In the--with the expectation that health reform is going

to actually improve things for average Americans and improve the overall

economic situation with regard to health care. But Senator McConnell today

started talking about not wanting to tip his hand as to what he had in mind

for stopping health reform. I understand they"re desperation to stop it.

Do you know what they"re going to pull out their hat to try to kill

it?

BROWN: I think they"re going to--with reconciliation, they"re going

to try to do amendments, as many as they can get away with. And I think we

keep them all here tonight, the next night, the night after, the night

after. We--if they"re going to--if they"re going to try to filibuster

in the traditional sense or in the more modern obstructionist sense that

they do, they"re going to have to--they"re going to have--they"re going

to pain too. They"re going to have to stay all night and we"re going to

have quorum calls and we"re going to do whatever we need to do to get this

passed within the Senate rules and within fair play.

But that"s the way we"ve done it all along. And I just--you know,

this whole thing when they say, we"re going to--reconciliation, we"re

going to turn over 1/7 of the American economy, reconciliation, for one

thing, it"s a majority vote, as you point, which every other country in the

world runs their parliamentary or their congress by. But more than that,

the reconciliation part of the bill is small, at the edges, fixing, making

positive changes in the big bill that both houses have already passed and

the Senate with the supermajority of 60 and in the House.

So, this whole thing that we"re turning to reconciliation--one more

point, when I hear them say they only did little things with

reconciliation. When I was in the House, the Senate did reconciliation--

when they did reconciliation on tax bills, they took a surplus that was

going to be trillions of dollars and turned it into a deficit--a debt,

which was going to be trillions of dollars. And they say that was a minor

thing they did with reconciliation? Nice try on that one, my friends.

MADDOW: Senator Brown, briefly, one last thing on health reform. The

current bill before the Senate does not include a public option. You said

today that you could--you might offer a separate bill that would include

the public option.

How would that work, exactly? And what sort of support do you think

you"d get?

BROWN: Well, my comments that way just meant, I don"t give up on

this. I--when Senator Kennedy and Senator Dodd, the acting chair of the

health committee, asked Senator Whitehouse--Sheldon Whitehouse from Rhode

Island and me to write the public option bill, we"ve been working on it

ever since, for seven or eight months. We"re going to try to get it in

reconciliation. If we fail, we"re going to keep trying and keep trying.

If it"s a free stand-alone bill later, I"m not giving up on this.

And by the time this bill takes effect, this law fully takes effect, I

hope to have the public option included, because it will save money. It

will keep the insurance companies honest.

The insurance companies always play this game a step ahead of the

sheriff. And we need the discipline on the market, the discipline on the

insurance companies, and in the choice that so many Americans that are

being told, you"ve got to buy insurance, we want you to have the option of

buying a public insurance plan that"s freestanding and can compete toe to

toe with Aetna and Blue Cross and all these other insurance companies.

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio--thank you for

your time tonight, sir. Appreciate it.

BROWN: Always. Thank you, Rachel.

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