CNN "Lou Dobbs Tonight" - Transcript
Interview
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DOBBS: A new attempt in Congress tonight to bring new momentum to comprehensive immigration reform. The plan could mean amnesty for up to 20 million illegal immigrants living in this country. The initiative is being led by Congressman Luis Gutierrez. He is the chair of the Democratic Caucus Immigration Task Force and joins us here tonight.
Congressman, good to see you.
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: Thank you, Lou, for having me this evening.
DOBBS: That was a deep sigh as we began here. Does it seem we've been here before?
GUTIERREZ: We've been here before, and my hope is that you and I will have conversations other than those around immigration that we could end this debate and have immigration reform and you'll still invite me back for other items.
DOBBS: We're talking about health care and all sorts of things. And this is an issue that frankly there is so much distortion and there has been so much over the course of the past decade by those who sought to exploit illegal immigrants in this country, those who sought to bring more into this country. I've thought Charles Schumer, Senator Schumer was beginning what would be a process toward candor, direct and honest language, but that doesn't seem to have been followed upon. You have advanced a new plan, one that calls for amnesty. What drives your ten-point plan?
GUTIERREZ: Well, what drives the ten-point plan is to end illegal immigration as we know it. I think we've had conversations both on the air and off the air about this issue. I mean, I want to end -- I don't want -- yes, I want to allow an opportunity to those that are already here to legalize their status. If they've been working, they stayed out of trouble, they're paying their taxes, they're ready to learn English and they're ready to give us their fingerprints and go through a background check, I'm ready to give them an opportunity to learn so they can pay all the taxes that are required, learn English and fully commit themselves to this nation. I'm ready to do that because I think on the flipside, Lou, the reality is we don't have a program to deport 12 million, in my estimation, 20 million in your estimation --
DOBBS: I don't know.
GUTIERREZ: We're just not going to deport them. So if we're not going to deport them, let's be safe and let's be smart and let's be practical, let's tax them and make sure they're paying their fair share by legalizing their status in the United States. That's my point.
DOBBS: Legalizing their status?
GUTIERREZ: Uh-huh.
DOBBS: Fundamental to the question becomes, is it every illegal immigrant, is it unconditional amnesty, and what will be the impact of that? And those are issues. Think about it, we're here in 2009, some left wing ethnocentric interest groups are calling for my firing from CNN because I'm quote unquote a racist. I could obtain purity in a moment if I would just simply embrace open borders and sponsor illegal immigration. That's the kind of distortion that is not helpful. The reality is, we have some basic questions that people are avoiding asking. And if I may, let me ask a couple and see how we go and go forward. One, should every illegal immigrant in this country receive amnesty?
GUTIERREZ: I believe that every undocumented worker in this country who can come forward and show that they've violated no other law except the immigration law, which they used breaking the immigration law to arrive in this country, that's it. No other felony, no other criminal record. That they are sustentative, they got family, they've got a job, they've been working, and they're ready to prove that by bringing forward and going through a very rigorous background check, we should give them an opportunity. Does that mean they go directly to permanent residency and directly to citizenship? No, we have to earn that too. But I think we can give them a program of five, six years which they continue to work, pay taxes, learn English, civics, become fully incorporated and at the end, if they fill the test, then we'll let them stay. But I want them to earn because in the interim period, many Americans say they're here and they're not paying their fair share. My program says, let them pay their fair share. Because we don't have political will, we don't have the programs to deport them, why don't we integrate them? There will be undesirable immigrants to this country, which we can weed out of the program very easily. We can have a set of rules.
DOBBS: We can't even weed out the undesirable citizens for crying out loud. You know better than that.
GUTIERREZ: But Lou, I think we can because then what we'll have is a small population. On pop of that, we can't let it happen again. So we need good employment verification system.
DOBBS: E-verify?
GUTIERREZ: Make sure that the employers don't con the system and are able to hire people that aren't supposed to be here. We're looking at Senator Schumer to make sure --
DOBBS: E-verify, would you support --
GUTIERREZ: My grandfather in the '30s got a social security card. My grandson has the same technology on that card. Let's bring new technology to make sure everybody is working in the United States is qualified to work in the United States and authorized to work here.
DOBBS: You support e-verify?
GUTIERREZ: I like -- I would like a rigorous program such as e- verify.
DOBBS: How about e-verify itself?
GUTIERREZ: Since the first time we introduced it with Senator McCain and Kennedy, it was five years ago now, we always had a vigorous employment verification system. We want to stage it -- part of the problem is --
DOBBS: Why can't we just be straight? It's the most effective program we've got against the hiring of illegal immigrants in the country. Why not simply put it in place? It's very simple, let's get real and honest, because until we do, we can't get to a solution and you know that.
GUTIERREZ: Look at the Swift plant. They were using e-verify and when they raided that place, 70 percent of the workers were undocumented. You can still fool e-verify. We can go get somebody else's Social Security card, steal an identity and submit that to e- verify and it says ring, ring, American citizen, qualified to work. So let's goat a system that not only as an e-verify component but also says we need biometric information to make sure that Lou Dobbs or Luis Gutierrez, who are legally qualified to work in the United States, are really the people. So I want to do e-verify plus and make sure that our system doesn't get penetrated. And then we end illegal immigration to this country and there will not be undocumented workers, unless the people want to continue hiring them and break the law. Everybody doesn't pay all their taxes either, but we need to enforce our law.
DOBBS: I think upon that we can certainly agree and I hope to continue the conversation. Congressman Luis Gutierrez, we'll get back to e-verify.
GUTIERREZ: We will. Let's have another conversation about it.
DOBBS: You got a deal.
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