MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

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Joining us now is Governor Tim Kaine of Virginia. He‘s chairman of the Democratic Party.

Governor Kaine, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

GOV. TIM KAINE (D), VIRGINIA: Good to be back, Rachel. Thanks.

MADDOW: You‘re the head of the Democratic Party. You‘re the governor of Virginia. You‘ve been stumping with President Obama about why we need health care reform.

Who do you think is the other side in this debate? And how do you think that you plan to beat them?

KAINE: Well, you put your finger on it. I mean, there are special interests inside the beltway and, I think, primarily, insurance companies who are doing great. They do better if they can kick people off insurance or not cover people who they say have preexisting conditions, and they‘ve been doing quite well even in a tough economy. And they fought against it very, very hard in the 1990s and are fighting against it now.

But what we see is the overwhelming majority of the American public see—think the system is broken and they want health insurance reform. They want a public option to put some real competition into the system so that these interests aren‘t running the show and basically controlling the dialogue.

And we‘re going to beat them with the American public. We don‘t have to hire actors. We‘ve had hundreds of thousands of regular citizens tell their own stories about what "no health care coverage" or inadequate health care—health insurance has meant. And we‘re going to use the stories and the experiences of real Americans to carry the day on this.

MADDOW: If this were going to be decided by referendum, if Americans were going to vote on how much they liked the current system, how much they would like to have a public option, some of the other reforms that have been proposed, I think that you‘re absolutely right that you would definitely win. But it doesn‘t happen that way. It happens through a representative democracy.

And it does seem like.

KAINE: Right.

MADDOW: . in Congress, we‘re seeing some opposition from members of Congress. And I have to ask you if the opposition in Congress, even from conservative members of the Democratic Party, is because of pressure from industry.

KAINE: Well, I think that those pressures are some of the many pressures that people are feeling.

But let me just say this, Rachel. This is a heavy lift. Every president since President Truman has said, we need to find a health care future where we have a competitive insurance market and all Americans receive coverage.

What we‘ve seen happen in the last month or so is we now have bills that have passed through three different committees in the Senate and House. Two other committees are expected to take action very soon. We‘re farther than we‘ve ever been.

It‘s heavy lifting. It ain‘t easy. We‘re going to have to take the various bills and then make them into a workable plan.

But you‘re right. If we could have a referendum, the American public would overwhelmingly vote to significantly reform this system. But I think that the voices of Americans are being heard and will be heard, and that‘s why, we are going to make health reform happen this year.

MADDOW: In terms of some of the level of discourse that‘s happened around this issue, which I referenced in the introduction here, the level of what I consider to be wing-nuttery craziness in this debate is primarily of course an indictment of the wing-nuts themselves and the people in the mainstream media who are willing to give them a platform.

But is it also to a certain extent an indictment of those who are in favor of reform, that the message hasn‘t been clear enough, it hasn‘t been strong enough to drown out this conspiratorial nonsense?

KAINE: Well, I don‘t know that you ever drown out wing-nuttery from being wing-nut. You can‘t put duct tape over folks‘ mouths. They‘re going to say what they want. And especially if they‘re being encouraged to by people who have a lot of money and they‘re trying to protect themselves.

But, again, Rachel, you know, as we pointed out, all the polling I‘ve seen says the overwhelming majority of the American public wants to see significant reform to health insurance. They support the basic principles of lowering costs for families and businesses, preserving choices, and actually expanding choice with a public option and then finding a way to cover all Americans.

So wing-nuts will say whatever they‘re going to say. The American public isn‘t buying it. Congress is moving forward on these bills. And it is—it‘s a challenging process but we heard even today that the two committees that are still working are expected to put bills out and then we‘ll have to work to take those various bills in both houses and make them into a workable plan.

But this thing is moving. I think the insurance industry knows it. They‘re fighting desperately. They‘re lobbying hard against it. But the American people want this to happen and it‘s going to happen.

MADDOW: As head of the Democratic Party, you are a very important tent pole in a very big tent and there are a lot of Democrats in Congress right now.

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: To what extent—not to call you a pole or anything, although I don‘t think that would be an insult. But.

KAINE: Yes, right.

MADDOW: . to what extent is the prospect of getting health care really all about the prospect of holding the Democratic Party together, about having party discipline and party loyalty on this issue because it really is all on the Democrats‘ plate?

KAINE: Well, Rachel, I‘ve never been compared to a tent pole before, but I actually think that‘s a good comparison. I‘m a big camper. So, I‘ll take the—I‘ll take the analogy. We do have a big tent on the Democratic side.

Let me talk about Democrats and then I‘ll talk about Republicans. We are a very broad party. I like being a Democrat because of our diversity. And that diversity includes ideology.

So, there is a pretty wide expanse of Democrats and an awful lot of this debate is ultimately getting the Democrats to pull together and be results-focused rather than what has to be my plan or I‘m not getting onboard. But I see that happening even amidst the diversity and the breadth of ideas. I see it happening in these committees that are putting bills out on the floor for the first time in the history of this debate about how to reform our health insurance.

What I‘m looking for among Republicans is, you know, are there any Republicans who are going to stand up and say, "You‘re right, this system needs fundamental reform and change"? A system where 15 years ago, more than 60 percent of small businesses provided health insurance to their employees, and today, 38 percent do, and that number is dropping like a stone while the percentage of GDP that we spend on health care is going up. That system is broken.

You don‘t hear a single voice really among Republican leadership standing up and acknowledging that and saying we‘ve got to make some changes.

The president is right. We have to make some changes.

So, we‘ll do our best, and I feel confident that we, the president, the Senate, and House leadership will get Democrats behind a position. We‘re looking for any Republican who will just have the courage to admit what Americans understand, that this is a system that‘s broken and it needs change.

MADDOW: Governor Tim Kaine of Virginia, chairman of the Democratic National Committee—thanks very much for your time tonight. I know we had a lot of logistical hoops to jump through to get you on the air. I really appreciate you bearing with us.

KAINE: Glad to be with you always, Rachel.

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