MSNBC "Morning Joe" Interview - Transcript
Interview
MSNBC "MORNING JOE" INTERVIEW WITH REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D-MD)
SUBJECT: FOREIGN POLICY, LATIN AMERICA, CUBA
INTERVIEWERS: JOE SCARBOROUGH, MIKA BRZEZINSKI, PAT BUCHANAN
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MR. SCARBOROUGH: With us now, Democratic representative from Maryland, Congressman Elijah Cummings.
Good to see you again.
REP. CUMMINGS: Good morning, everyone.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: You know, you and Mika have a lot in common.
REP. CUMMINGS: Oh, is that right?
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Yeah. She has to sit next to me every morning. You had to sit next to me on the Committee for years.
REP. CUMMINGS: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: You need to tell her. Maybe you need to write a book about how the -- talk about terror! Talk about torture!
REP. CUMMINGS: (Laughs.)
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Any key advice --
REP. CUMMINGS: No, no. Just -- he talks a lot sometimes. (Laughter.)
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Really?
REP. CUMMINGS: So you just have to take everything with a grain of salt, by the way. (Laughter.)
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Does that happen? Write that down. Write that down. (Laughter.)
So you were -- you've visited Latin America, went to Colombia.
REP. CUMMINGS: Yeah.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: You saw the president this past weekend getting criticized. How do you think he did?
REP. CUMMINGS: I think he did well. I think that what has happened -- and I've heard some of the criticism -- but I think what has happened with President Obama is that, as in the elections, a lot of people underestimate this man, who I believe is a great leader. He takes leadership to another height.
Now, I understand the Chávez situation and people trying to figure out did he smile, did he --
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Right.
REP. CUMMINGS: But I think Barack Obama is above that, and I think that a lot of times people are operating on a little bit lower level than he is. And I do believe that he knows exactly what he's doing.
I believe it'll come to a point where -- he'll reach his hand out and say, look, let's try to work together to accomplish some things. But he's smart enough to know, at some point, that he -- if necessary, he'll back off.
And so I'm very impressed.
MS. BRZEZINSKI: It sort of comes to mind -- I don't remember what it was that caused it during the campaign, but when he went like that -- and -- (inaudible) -- I'm above it. And the few times we felt along the way that he should be more reactive to what was happening around him.
And yet people that I've spoken to who are close with him said that he sort of works along the mantra of don't react; respond.
But maybe, perhaps, as Pat has been pointing out with great historic parallels to back it up, that in some cases you do react. You take the moment and you defend the country, even if it's just a small amount.
REP. CUMMINGS: Yeah. Well, when I see what he did with regard to the CIA yesterday, that was a proud moment for me. For him to come in and say to the CIA, look, we're above that. We're a better nation than that.
And what I'm saying is I think that his leadership is a leadership that this country has not seen a lot of.
And one of the things, for example, when he talked about Cuba, he said, we're dealing with policies that were made before I was born.
And I think that America needs to understand that we've got a leader here who is willing to go to higher ground. But, again, I beg people not to underestimate him.
I've been around Barack Obama a lot, and I think he thinks these things through very carefully --
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Pat Buchanan, are we all guilty of underestimating him?
MR. BUCHANAN: Well, we certainly -- nobody anticipated Barack Obama'd come out of the Illinois legislature in four years as president of the United States.
But Congressman, let me ask you this. Let's take Cuba, the relationship with Cuba.
It goes back to Ike; it goes back to John F. Kennedy, Nixon, Johnson, all the way up through all those folks. Do you not believe that our policy toward Cuba, by and large, has been correct and that it deserves defense by the president of the United States?
This wasn't an attack on him personally --
REP. CUMMINGS: Sure. Sure.
MR. BUCHANAN: It was an attack on his country. And Ortega just vomited all over our record in the Caribbean for the last 100 years. And people said, Barack Obama, it's not about him personally; it's about his country's being hammered.
REP. CUMMINGS: Right.
MR. BUCHANAN: And Gene Robinson just got a Pulitzer. He said, show some anger, Mr. President. Do you feel --
(Cross talk.)
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Or just say something.
REP. CUMMINGS: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (In acknowledgement.)
I think that -- one of you all used the term no-drama Obama. I think that -- sure, I think he should at times, but I think he's smart enough to know when to do it and how to do it.
People, during the campaign, said that he should have fought back against Hillary Clinton. But today, here he is, president of the United States. And they --
MR. BUCHANAN: (Inaudible.)
REP. CUMMINGS: Wait, hold on. Let me --
But as far as the foreign policy is concerned and Cuba, I think his approach to Cuba so far, he's sort of inched his way along.
And he's talked about taking away -- addressing the travel restrictions, but he wouldn't go much further than that.
And then the next thing you know, he has Fidel's brother, the new president, Raúl, reaching out and saying, okay, let's begin to talk.
Again, I think that he's going to -- he's systematically and very carefully addressing these issues in the way that he deems to be appropriate.
And you know what? I think history -- we've got to -- keep in mind, Barack Obama has been in office for 90 days. And he has done a lot already.
(Laughter.)
MR. SCARBOROUGH: It's been quite a 90-day time period, no doubt about it.
REP. CUMMINGS: Ninety days. Yes.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: And again, George Bush reached out to Vladimir Putin early on, thinking it would yield results. It didn't yield those results.
And so you believe that if the president, this president, reaches out and has his hand slapped, he'll pull back.
REP. CUMMINGS: Yeah, I believe that. And I think -- but I think leadership --
I've always believed that leadership, truly leadership, is always before its time. And I think that you have to -- and I think Barack believes it, that you've got to act on what you believe is right and then sometimes you've got to wait for the critics to catch up.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Go ahead, Pat.
MR. BUCHANAN: I just want to ask you do you think, though, that Barack Obama has an obligation or a duty, or should he, defend American policy toward Cuba and in the Caribbean and the hemisphere for the last 50 years, or should he not try to defend it and just move forward?
REP. CUMMINGS: I think he should try to defend it but, at the same time, I think he should try to change it if he thinks it's appropriate.
Pat, we've got -- and I've heard Barack, and he and I have talked about this, we have one life to live. This is no dress rehearsal; this is a life and this is our watch.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Yeah. All right.
Thank you so much, Elijah. Great to see you again.
REP. CUMMINGS: Thank you all. Good seeing you, too.
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