CBS "60 Minutes" - Transcript

Interview

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MS. STAHL: The first 100 days of an administration is when the first report cards come out. The president is facing a barrage of tough issues, and he's getting some good marks and some criticism. But what about the vice president? Well, he's still "Regular Joe," a man deepened by tragedy when his first wife and baby daughter were killed in a car crash in 1972. A senator for 36 years, chairman of two powerful committees, he told us he may have more experience than any vice president ever, and yet he has a reputation as a gaffe machine, a lose cannon who simply talks too much.

I asked him if he was worried about doing an interview for "60 Minutes." "It's not YOU I'm afraid of," he said, "it's me." But everyone we spoke to at the White House said they don't want him to change.

(Begin videotaped segment.)

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: The president and the entire team close to him has encouraged me not to try to all of a sudden be a different Joe Biden than I was for the past 36 years. Sometimes, maybe I shouldn't be as straightforward as I am, but I'm not going to change that.

MS. STAHL: So you're not sitting on it.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: I'm not sitting on it. I am who I am.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: After trying to muzzle the man often ridiculed for his loose lips, the White House now calls his, shall we say, exuberance an asset. They call it truth-telling and see his talent for connecting as a real advantage. Let Joe be Joe with his atta- boy'ing, hand-gripping, hot personality versus Obama's cool cat.

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: You seem to be not just yin and yang but diametric opposites. He's so disciplined. This is not you. He's crisp. This is not you.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: There's a lot of constituencies out there that want the time, want to hear more than, as you would say, the crisp answer. They want somebody who's going to take the time and have the time to listen to them.

MS. STAHL: And that's you.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: That's basically my job, and I like engaging with people.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: Call him schmoozer-in-chief, as he told this audience in St. Louis, he loves being vice president.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (From videotape.) When I was a United States senator and a powerful chairman, I'd have to plead. (Laughter.) Now I can just call a Cabinet meeting, and they all show up, you know what I mean?

MS. STAHL: But at the end of the day, he is number two. And the question of how he's dealing with the transition from powerful senator to the guy standing behind the much-younger president has become a Washington parlor question. He admitted to me that after 36 years being his own boss, the first 100 days have been a period of adjustment.

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: When you say that you're your own man kind of thing versus working basically for someone else --

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Well, it's like, for example, I would ordinarily have picked up the phone and called the captain of that ship as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. Well, it's not appropriate for me to do that. I mean, the president did it right away. You follow me? So you know, little things, they're really not big things, but little things.

(Ms. Stahl and Vice President Biden tour the vice president's office.)

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: It's not quite as big as my Senate office.

MS. STAHL: Your Senate office was bigger? Is that true?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yeah, it is true.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: He hasn't had much time to worry about the "little" things because there have been so many big things, from Afghanistan to bailouts to torture memos. Which means, he told me, he's been spending a lot of time with the president.

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: You wanted to be, I've heard the expression, "uber adviser." You wanted to be involved in all the issues and be the last person in the room when he makes a decision. Is that what --

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Well, the first part is too sophisticated a term for me.

MS. STAHL: (Laughs.) But has it worked out?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes, it has worked out. On every major decision, the president has actually sought my advice.

(Pause Biden interview.)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: (From videotape.) Joe Biden is doing an outstanding job.

MS. STAHL: The president wants everyone to know his team and us, in case there's any question, that he thinks he made a brilliant choice.

(Begin Obama videotaped interview.)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: He's pretty fearless in offering his opinions. He's oftentimes willing to make the contrarian argument and really force his people to think and defend their positions. And that ends up being very valuable.

MS. STAHL: Does he argue with you?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know, Joe's not afraid to tell me what he thinks, and that's exactly what I need and exactly what I want.

(Pause Obama interview.)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: (From videotape.) And that's why I've asked Vice President Biden to lead a tough, unprecedented oversight effort because nobody messes with Joe.

MS. STAHL: With so much on his plate, the president has made his number two the stimulus cop. The assignment? To see that the $787 billion in stimulus money is spent wisely.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (From videotape.) You cannot take that money and, you know, put it in the rainy-day fund or whatever.

MS. STAHL: He's on the phone several hours a week with mayors and governors, making sure they follow the rules.

(Resume Biden interview.)

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: But don't come back and tell me you've built a swimming pool because it doesn't pass the smell test.

MS. STAHL: It does seem like the administration is saying, we can do it all, the spending, not have taxes, all of that. Maybe you're not completely leveling with us, that your assumptions are too rosy. This is just what the administration was not supposed to be doing.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: What we have done is we have taken what are the consensus estimates on the low side of what we think is going to happen.

MS. STAHL: But I keep hearing that we're going to have high, really high unemployment until the end of 2010.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Look, it took us a long time to get into this, and it's going to take us a while to get out. That's why we're investing the money we're investing in this recovery package. Had we not done that, things would be a great deal worse.

MS. STAHL: Is this the right time to fix all of that? Or is the economy in such bad shape that the deficits are going to get out of hand in the future? That's the fear, there is a fear.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: It's a legitimate fear. There's only way to keep it from happening: reduce our energy costs and reduce our health care costs.

MS. STAHL: The only question is, when? That's the only question.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Now. Now. Now.

MS. STAHL: Now.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: All his expertise doesn't mean the White House rests easy when the vice president is holding forth. His penchant for bloopers still makes them nervous. The president himself once called them "Joe's rhetorical flourishes," like this one:

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (From videotape.) If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, there's still a 30 percent chance we're going to get it wrong.

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: The gaffes -- he's actually shown some displeasure with you in public.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: That's true. That had happened in the past. And quite frankly, the president said to me he was sorry that it was taken out of context, his body language on one of those cases.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: His body language -- when Mr. Biden made fun of the chief justice's flubbing at the inaugural swearing-in of the president.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (From videotape.) My memory is not as good as Justice Roberts. (Laughter.)

MS. STAHL: The president moves in with a disapproving tap and a tight-lipped grimace.

(Resume Obama interview.)

MS. STAHL: Do you talk it out, take him to the woodshed? Are you candid enough with each other?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: We are, actually. And if Joe was off-message on a particular day, usually I don't have to bring it up. He's the first one to come to me and say, you know what? I'm not sure that's exactly how we want to position ourselves. The flip-side is is if I'm off-message, he's not going to be bashful about saying, you know, Mr. President, I think, you know, we might want to steer more in that direction.

(Pause Obama interview.)

(Resume Biden interview.)

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Does it make me susceptible to being a target? Yeah, it does.

MS. STAHL: A little bit of lampooning kind of stuff?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Well, you know, much of the ridicule of me is well- deserved. (Laughs.)

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: The vice president gets especially high marks as a team player. For those who predicted he and the secretary of State would be rivals, they both say uh-uh. And in fact, they meet for a policy breakfast every Tuesday.

SEC. CLINTON: (From videotape.) He has been at the highest levels of American foreign policy decision-making, and we all listen to him.

MS. STAHL: Mr. Biden prides himself on knowing how the world works. So what about the criticism that the president's been too chummy with some of our adversaries?

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: The Republicans are hammering away on this handshake that the president had with Hugo Chavez and whether it conveyed some kind of lack of toughness on his part.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Do you think Hugo Chavez or anyone else in the world thinks that Barack Obama's shaking hands with a man who was invited to a conference with him, who's president of another country, who walks up to him and shakes his hand, do you think they think that's weakness? I think it expresses confidence.

MS. STAHL: And then there's something else that's bubbling. And thisis a direct quote from Dick Cheney saying that he finds it disturbing that Mr. Obama apologizes all the time. Our enemies will be quick to take advantage of a situation if they think they're dealing with, quote, "a weak president."

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Look, I don't know what he's apologized for. For example, saying we should close Guantanamo is not an apology, it's a reflection of a fact that the policy that we engaged in made us weaker in the world. He didn't go out and say, oh, my God, the fact that the last administration did these things, we're so sorry. He didn't say that. He just said, we don't do torture anymore.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: We joined him on a trip to Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri last week. Mr. Biden feels a special bond with military audiences. His own son, Beau, a captain in the Army National Guard, was sent to Iraq in November when his unit was called up. Flying back to Washington on Air Force Two, I asked him if he worries about his son's safety.

(Resume Biden interview.)

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: I've ridden home with too many dead young men and women in caskets. And it's just impossible to not associate with that. I mean, you think, as a parent, God forbid, how would I respond?

MS. STAHL: But do you ever say, my God, my own son is there?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Well, you know, I don't know how to answer that. The way I deal with it is I don't think about it that way. I'm proud of him. He's a good man.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: He still calls both his sons, Hunter, 39, and Beau, now 40, honey.

(Resume Biden interview.

)

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Actually, I do. I do.

MS. STAHL: How do they feel about it?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Well, I think they feel good about it. When we see each other, we hug and kiss. After my wife and daughter were killed, I don't know quite what happened, but I found myself being maybe more physically embracive of my little boys.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: He's physically embracive with everybody, total strangers. He hugs, he slaps, he punches, grabs, holds, noses in and bubs foreheads. Children are a special magnet. He and his wife, Jill, work them like a rope line of voters on a campaign. And he cannot resist speechifying even when his audience is made up of 6-year olds.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (From videotape.) Let me tell you something. A couple of you asked me a question. What inspired you to want to be the vice president? And what inspired me to be vice president was a guy some of you know, Barack Obama. (Applause.) I actually tried to be president, but you know what? He's better than I was! (Laughter.)

MS. STAHL: The Bidens have been married for 31 years. In addition to the two sons, they have a daughter, Ashley. They've lived a modest life in Delaware. Mrs. Biden, a professor of English, still teaches at a community college.

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: You come home and grade papers at night?

MS. BIDEN: Every night.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: She carries the papers everywhere.

MS. BIDEN: (Laughs.) No different than most American women who are raising children and working.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: They both seem to be getting a kick out of living in a big mansion now.

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: Joe Biden was always one of the poorest senators. They always said that, every time the tax returns came out, Joe Biden, one of the --

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: That hasn't changed. (Laughs.)

MS. BIDEN: Now he's the poorest vice president. (Laughs.)

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: The vice president likes to talk about his working- class roots as he goes around the country telling average Americans how all the stimulus money is going to help them.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (From videotape.) We have $500 million in this to train people for green jobs.

(Resume Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: I could hear the ka-ching, ka-ching, the cost of all this.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: What's happened here is we inherited a yearly debt of $1.2 trillion. We're going to cut that debt we inherited in half within the first four years.

MS. STAHL: Oh, come on.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: No, we are.

MS. STAHL: With all this spending?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: With all this spending.

MS. STAHL: And no taxes on any part of the middle class?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: No additional taxes but tax cuts for the middle class.

MS. STAHL: You're rosy.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: I think I'm realistic. I think I'm realistic.

(Pause Biden interview.)

MS. STAHL: So is the vice president really unleashed? There's a sense he's trying to find a balance between watching his tongue -- he hasn't made a gaffe since early February -- and just being Joe.

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