MSNBC "Morning Joe" - Transcript
MSNBC "MORNING JOE" INTERVIEW WITH GOVERNOR MARK SANFORD (R-SC)
SUBJECT: ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE INTERVIEWERS: JOE SCARBOROUGH, MIKA BRZEZINSKI, DONNY DEUTSCH
Copyright ©2009 by Federal News Service, Inc., Ste. 500, 1000 Vermont Ave, Washington, DC 20005 USA. Federal News Service is a private firm not affiliated with the federal government. No portion of this transcript may be copied, sold or retransmitted without the written authority of Federal News Service, Inc. Copyright is not claimed as to any part of the original work prepared by a United States government officer or employee as a part of that person's official duties. For information on subscribing to the FNS Internet Service at www.fednews.com, please email Carina Nyberg at cnyberg@fednews.com or call 1-202-216-2706.
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Here with us now, the Governor of South Carolina and the adorable Chairman of the Republican Governors Association --
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Mark, I'm sorry, this is just --
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Governor Mark Sanford.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Mark, you've been under fire for refusing $700 million of the stimulus package. Tell us why you made the decision you made.
GOV. SANFORD: Well, it's a study in contrast. I'm just listening to your lifestyle and going to fancy concerts and what not over the weekend.
MS. BRZEZINSKI: We've been, indeed, fighting about the stimulus package down here in South Carolina and the reason is --
MR. SCARBOROUGH: You're a man of the people, Mark, a man of the people.
GOV. SANFORD: Well, in this case, watching out for the next generation because the bottom line on this thing -- the stimulus package represents the mother of all lotteries to state governments and what we're saying is, wait a minute, if you won the lottery, you wouldn't go out and spend every dime, you'd set some money aside for a rainy day to shore up your financial position so that you pay down the mortgage, you paid off credit card balances. We ought to be doing the same thing at the state government level and that's what we're pushing for.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: So what do you want to do? You want to save $700 million for a rainy day fund?
GOV. SANFORD: Well, it's a little bit more complicated than that. South Carolina actually ranks --
MR. SCARBOROUGH: I'm a simple guy. Keep it simple for me.
GOV. SANFORD: We're fourth in the United States of America in what we allocate to debt service, so a full 11 percent of what we spend every year goes to bondholders and interest payments in New York and Zurich rather than schoolteachers and rather to health care in South Carolina. And what we've said is, you know, this would pay tremendous dividends, $168 million alone in just the first two years and dividends over time.
So we're just saying, if this financial storm lasts more than 24 months, it would make a whole lot of sense to have gotten our financial ship of state a bit stronger and riding out the storm that may be before us.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Donny Deutsch is here, speaking of the lifestyles of the rich and famous and he has a question for you.
MR. DEUTSCH: Governor, you know, ideology is all great, but let's pretend I'm a dad and I'm living in South Carolina. A lot of that money is earmarked for education and if you don't take that money because of your point of view and my kid -- there are less teachers and the tuition for the state schools go up and education is really affected, this is not just in theory, this is reality. What do you say to me as a dad and I'm worried about my kid in a state that has very poor education records?
GOV. SANFORD: Yeah. But here is the bottom line. And what this tug of war is really about is reform within South Carolina. Use GM as an example. They said give us the money, the billions and we'll make reforms so that we're more competitive over the long run.
They took the money. They didn't make the reforms and now the President of the United States has gone in and fired Rick Wagoner. And so what we're saying is, wait a minute, it's only in these kinds of economic times that you can make the changes that are essential, frankly, to South Carolina becoming more competitive.
So our view is, no, we could make some changes that created the dollars that could then be allocated to education and other things. This is not about the education system not getting the money; it's the question of where it's going to come from. We think it would be far better to come from other reforms that have been long overdue in South Carolina.
MR. DEUTSCH: Governor, it is going to go to education, and once again, if my kid is in a class and now instead of 30 kids, there are 60 kids, this money is going directly to education.
So tell me why it is not better for me as a citizen of South Carolina and for my children to get this money?
GOV. SANFORD: Well, it's absolutely not better to load your kids up with the debt that our country is going to be looking at going forward because somebody is going to pay that bill.
MR. DEUTSCH: Well, if they can't get educated and they can't get a job, I'm not going to even worry about debt.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Hey, Donny, we've got a delay here.
MR. DEUTSCH: I'm sorry.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: So go ahead and finish up.
GOV. SANFORD: So I guess the simple message would be this, I agree with what you're saying with regard to education. It is clear to anybody to succeed in the 21st century. The question in South Carolina that is currently being debated and I suspect in other states as well is, do we take this huge windfall and simply spend it all? Or do we leave some pressure within the boiling pot so that we make reforms that have been long overdue so that that money can then be put into education and other things?
That's what this debate at the end of the day is really all about?
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Donny, what's wrong with that? Shouldn't we set aside a little bit of money?
MR. DEUTSCH: Let's pretend, this is real life stuff. You live there and you've got a kid who is in the fourth grade and the governor of your state is saying, you know, I'm worried about my deficit ten years from now --
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Not his deficit. It's the kids' deficit.
MR. DEUTSCH: But Bobby, you know, I'm worried about your deficit 20 years from now, so Bobby, you're going to get a weaker education.
(Cross-talk.)
GOV. SANFORD: Can I interrupt on two different fronts?
MR. DEUTSCH: Sure.
GOV. SANFORD: One, it's important to remember that in 24 months if we spend all this money, we end up $744 million in the whole, and the question 24 months from now since little Johnny is still going to be in school is, then what do we do?
The other thing that needs to be remembered is, last year in South Carolina, we spent $19 billion. This coming year even without the stimulus, we will spend $21 billion. That's about a four percent increase.
So what we're saying is, no, within that four percent increase, within all those billions of dollars, surely we can go out and find some savings because in South Carolina we spend 130 percent of the U.S. average in the cost of our state government versus other governments and we don't get 130 percent of the U.S. average in the quality of our education, health care or other government services. Reform is what this thing is about.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: It is and you know what? Little Johnny and working people like you, Mark Sanford, that's what we need.
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Slight little sarcasm in your voice.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Well, he's accusing me of going -- and I'm a little concerned about that.
GOV. SANFORD: I was hearing the concert -- Carole King and others.
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Oh, she's been on the show.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Hey, can I ask you a quick question, buddy? Where did you work before you went to Congress?
GOV. SANFORD: Variety of different places. I worked in a tomato package shed growing up, I worked on a shrimp boat growing up, all kinds of different stories I'll bore you with later on.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: I thought you worked on Wall Street.
MS. BRZEZINSKI: Confused.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: Bubba Gump Sanford. Hey, Mark, seriously, I want you to run for president. That's all I'm going to say. I think you need to run for president. The Republicans need you.
GOV. SANFORD: We'll get right on that. Thanks, Joe.
MR. SCARBOROUGH: You're talking about sarcasm in the voice. Thank you so much, Mark.
END.