NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript

Interview

MR. BROKAW: We're back and joined by Senator Mel Martinez and Congressman James Clyburn, one a Republican the other a Democrat, obviously, welcome to both of you.

I thought I would begin by sharing with our audience and with you, as well, a Gallup and USA Today poll taken the day after the election -- does this describe your reaction the Barack Obama being elected president? Sixty-seven percent of the people said they were proud; sixty-seven percent said they were optimistic; 59 percent said they were excited. Those are very high numbers. How do you hold onto that in the face of this deteriorating economy and all the uncertainty that's still ahead of us, Congressman?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, I think the first thing we have to do is respond to thhe American people with an economic recovery package that will restore jobs; that will, once again, stand up infrastructure, roads, bridges, water, sewage. I think we have to respond by saying to the children, we are going to have a state children's health program. I think we need to respond to the stem cell program, stem cell research.

I think that the campaign told us a whole lot about what's on the minds of the American people, and I think that you keep that excitement by responding immediately to that, and I think that's why that the president-elect made it very clear in his first press conference, that he wants an economic recovery package, and he would like to have it right now, and I would hope that the leadership of the Congress and the White House can get together on such a package in the near future.

MR. BROKAW: We want to get to the specifics in just a moment. Senator Martinez, what about the Republican Party and keeping its place prominent after this pretty resounding defeat?

SEN. MARTINEZ: Well, the first thing we have to do is celebrate the moment, and I think I agree with the sentiment of so many of those people in the poll -- this is a historic moment. It's one that I thought Senator McCain properly recognized in his very gracious concession speech. And so we need to keep that kind of spirit of pulling together and finding common ground.

However, I think the important thing for this new administration and for the leadership in Congress to do is to find the common ground agenda items. You know, when you look back to Florida, we have a lot of problems in the state of Florida -- unemployment parallels the national average. In some counties it's 10 percent, which is dramatically high; find ways in which we can put people back to work, and we can get our economy running again. Look for that checklist of things where there can be common ground, stay away from those items where, frankly, there will be division, and there will be rancor, and there will be acrimony.

So look for the common ground, and I think that will be a prescription for us getting some things done.

MR. BROKAW: Okay, we want to get to those specific things that may divide you more than unite you, but let's hear, first of all, from President-Elect Obama, his first radio address in this new position yesterday, because he kind of laid out a general agenda of what he'd like to achieve.

PRES.-ELECT OBAMA (D-IL): (From audiotape.) First, we need a rescue plan for the middle class that invests in immediate efforts to create jobs and provides relief to families that are watching the paycheck shrink and their life savings disappear. Then we'll address the splitting impact of the financial crisis on other sectors of our economy and ensure that the rescue plan the past Congress is working to stabilize financial markets while protecting taxpayers, helping homeowners and not unduly rewarding the management of financial firms that are receiving government assistance.

Finally, we will move forward with a set of policies that will grow our middle class and strengthen our economy in the long term. We can't afford to wait on moving forward on the key priorities that I identified during the campaign including clean energy, health care, education, and tax relief for middle class families.

MR. BROKAW: He did not specifically mention a stimulus program. There's a good deal of talk about that on Capitol Hill when you come back into session. Would you be in favor of $100 billion stimulus program at this point, Senator Martinez?

SEN. MARTINEZ: I think it needs -- would depend on the specifics that might be included in that program, but I think some sort of stimulus is appropriate.

I would love to see it focused on home ownership, on getting back to the basics of what got us into this financial crisis in the first place, which is displaced homeowners, continuing rise in foreclosures, things of that nature. We need to focus it on creating job opportunities for American families that are today out of work and extending unemployment benefits and things of that nature that I think, frankly, are appropriate. But we need to see what's in the package before we can just sign on.

And I hope, frankly, part of this bipartisan spirit will be to be consulted in how we get to the package; inclusive in how we get to the decisions so that we can move forward in a united way, in a bipartisan way.

MR. BROKAW: And, Congressman Clyburn, do you think that you're going to have to defer some of the promises that were made in the last year, specifically the big issues like health care and maybe even tax increases on people who are making more than $225,000 a year given the perilous state of the economy?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, I think you have to prioritize, and prioritizing means that you took them in order of importance, and you don't have to defer what is the interest primarily.

MR. BROKAW: We'll just get to it later?

REP. CLYBURN: Yeah, well, I think that there are some things that will be going on as we tackle the big issues. Other people -- I don't think it would be on one track. I think all the tracks will be working, but you raise to the level of public view -- those big items like infrastructure, job creation. I really believe that we have done all we need to do for the financial communities with that $700 billion program. The emphasis at this point has got to be on the middle class. It's got to be on job creation; it's got to be on stabilizing people's families; restoring dignity -- that kind of excitement will not last if people don't have dignity restored to their homes.

MR. BROKAW: There is a very urgent matter that is before Washington, and that's what's going to happen to the American automobile industry. The heads of the three companies were down here last week really pleading for help. Here is a letter that Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, and Harry Reid, the Democratic senate leader has sent to Secretary Paulson asking them to review the feasibility of providing temporary assistance to the automobile industry during their current financial crisis. They didn't put a number on it. Would you be in favor of a $10 billion to $25 billion loan to the American automobile industry on the short term?

REP. CLYBURN: I don't know that I would put a number on it, but I am in favor of Secretary Paulson taking a hard look at that package that he has. I, for one, believe that he's got the authority to move quickly to do something to bring this industry back into the mainstream of our economy. They are about to drift out to the edge, and I think we need to bring them back in.

I believe he has the authority, I think he ought to move rather quickly to do that, and I would support that.

MR. BROKAW: Senator Martinez, you represent the party of free markets -- or it used to be the party of free markets -- do you think it's important for Chrysler, General Motors, and Ford to survive, or should we let the markets make that decision?

SEN. MARTINEZ: No, I think the United States must have an auto industry. We don't want to see a loss of over a million jobs. That affects a lot of American families, and so I think with prudence and with caution, I would think that there is something we can do to save that aspect of our economy.

MR. BROKAW: You'd vote for a loan to the American automobile industry?

SEN. MARTINEZ: Certainly, a loan, and we'll have to see what the amount -- the appropriate amount would be. But I also hope that it could be part of the $700 billion package.

MR. BROKAW: That's already been voted?

SEN. MARTINEZ: That's right.

MR. BROKAW: It would not be in addition to that?

SEN. MARTINEZ: Not in a -- I think as part of that package and within the authority of that package I think is possible for the secretary of the treasury to direct a loan to those entities.

And, you know, by the way, we just did $25 billion in loans to them just a couple of months ago, so that shouldn't be overlooked.

MR. BROKAW: But they're running out of money fast, I mean, it's possible that General Motors could run out money by June of next year given the cash that they're burning through at this time.

SEN. MARTINEZ: But there is also a limit to what government can do to a failing industry. There have got to be some things that they do to restore the confidence of the people that might invest their company.

MR. BROKAW: Congressman Clyburn, there is already a pretty spirited debate that is developing within your party, as you know. You have advised a pragmatic approach, which you call "Evolution not Revolution." They got a quick response from your good friend, Charles Rangel, who is the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee: "He is a national leader -- Clyburn," House Ways and Means Chairman, Charles Rangel of New York snapped, inviting the views of liberals who want to move fast on the most ambitious version of Obamanomics possible. "I am thinking of his constituents, and he doesn't have the slightest clue about what he's talking about." Rangel doesn't want to heard talk of containing the deficit -- "For God's sakes," he said, "Don't ask me where the money will come from. I'm going to the same place that Paulson went."

Are you going to get something done with that attitude?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, I think if you go to the same place where Paulson went, you would do fine, as the coffers are rather empty. I think that what we have to do -- Senator Obama, now president-elect, made it very clear in the campaign that he will govern from the center. He may, at times, be center right, sometimes center left, but always the center.

I think that we have made significant mistakes in the past by lurching too far to the right or too far to the left. We cannot have, as an antecedent for far right, to go far left. We have to bring things back to the center. We saw what happened with deregulation. We say, "Well, we over-regulated." So how do you respond? No regulation. That's not the antecedent for over-regulation. We have to bring things back to center. We have to find consensus, and we have to govern from that point.

And so as Charles and I have talked since then, I think the cameras caught him at an inopportune time.

MR. BROKAW: Senator Martinez, I want to raise with you one of the issues that I suspect you may have been thinking of when you said we don't want to get involved right away in those issues that could divide us. Here Senator Edward Kennedy today in the Washington Post, pressing hard, very hard, for doing something about national health care -- "The cost will be substantial, but the need for reform is too great to be deflected or delayed." Will the Republicans go along with the idea of doing something about national health care reform in the first year?

SEN. MARTINEZ: What we have to do as Republicans is not just be against what Senator Kennedy puts forward. We have to be ready with alternatives. We have to offer solutions. What is unacceptable is for 40 million Americans to be without health insurance. So we, as Republicans, we need to come up with the market solutions accompanied by government to deal with these kinds of problems that Americans are facing today.

What is unacceptable is to say that's not a problem, that 40 million Americans don't have health insurance or have no place to go for health care. We've got to be concerned about it, but we've got to come up with alternative solutions that are market-oriented that are going to work for the American people and not create a bigger government and single-payor type system, which I don't think, ultimately, will work.

MR. BROKAW: Congressman Clyburn, could you do that simultaneous with fixing the economy in the first year?

REP. CLYBURN: Absolutely. The first thing we have to do is January is to pass the state children's insurance program. That ought to be the first thing. That ought to be the entre to universal access to health care. Then I think we ought to look at Medicaid and Medicare and see what to do about people living on fixed incomes as a second step.

And I really believe that this ought to be fleshed out in full by looking at our community health care programs. These programs have been around for a long time. People accept them as a part of their everyday lives. They are much more preventive, and President-Elect Obama has talked about having a health care program that is preventive rather than curing illnesses.

I believe that we have the framework already there for a universal access program that will, in fact, be market-driven, that will have partnerships, and we ought to look at the community health care programs.

MR. BROKAW: Would a massive overhaul of the American health care system -- can that get done in the first two years of this administration or even in the first term, given the state of the economy?

SEN. MARTINEZ: Well, it just can't be. I mean, this is precisely what we should not be doing. SCHIP was one of the most divisive issues of the last Congress, where there was no consensus, there was no common ground. To bring that back up now would be to restart the fights of the past. We need to move past that. We cannot deal with health care in the current crisis mode that we're in.

Senator Obama was correct in the priorities that he outlined. We need to deal with the current economic crisis. And, by the way, Tom, we've not talked about foreign issues, and there is also a big, bad world out there. We saw the very aggressive statement that the Russian president made immediately upon President-Elect Obama winning.

So we're not going to be able to work in a vacuum, and to start out with health care, I think, is a big mistake.

REP. CLYBURN: Well, I beg to differ. We didn't have a -- it's not a divisive program. We passed SCHIP in the Congress. The president vetoed it. So just because the president vetoed it doesn't mean that there is not -- (inaudible) --. We passed this thing with a big vote. I really believe that we have got to do this. And I don't believe there needs to be a massive overhaul of the health care program in order to do it. I'd rather do that incrementally, start in helping the children, growing to people who are on fixed incomes, and then take a look at these community-based health care programs that are universally accepted, and that will not call for a massive overhaul. I don't think you really need a massive overhaul.

SEN. MARTINEZ: Well, if there's not a massive overhaul perhaps we can deal with a partial SCHIP-type issue.

MR. BROKAW: Senator Martinez, as you know, politics is about keeping score. I know this is tough for you to hear, probably, but you were 0 for 3 last Tuesday. You're a Republican, you are from Florida -- that went to the Democrats -- and you are Hispanic -- or Latino in some parts of this country -- and the Hispanics went overwhelmingly for the Democrats this time.

Jill Lawrence wrote in USA Today, "If the Republicans don't make their peace with Hispanic voters, they are not going to win presidential elections anymore. The math just isn't there." That's according to Simon Rosenberg, head of the NDN, a Democratic group that studies Hispanic voters. How do you get back to the Hispanics?

SEN. MARTINEZ: Governor Jeb Bush, former Governor Jeb Bush, last week, made a comment that if Republicans don't figure it out and do the math, we're going to be relegated to minority status. I've been preaching this for a long time to my colleagues within my party. I think that the very divisive rhetoric of the immigration debate set a very bad tone for our brand as Republicans. The fact of the matter is, I think, in Florida there was not a great ideological shift, but I think there was plenty of room for improvement in how that state was slipped upon.

The fact of the matter is that Hispanics are going to be a more and more vibrant part of the electorate, and the Republican Party had better figure out how to talk to them. We had a very dramatic shift between what President Bush will say we'll do with Hispanic voters, where he won 44 percent of them, and what happened to Senator McCain.

Senator McCain did not deserve what he got. He was one of those that valiantly fought for immigration reform but there were voices within our party, frankly, which, if they continue with that kind of rhetoric, anti-Hispanic rhetoric, that so much of it was heard, we're going to be relegated to minority status.

MR. BROKAW: Speaking of the future of the party and some of the issues that we've been discussing here -- Bobby Jindal, who is the governor of Louisiana, a rising star in your party, had this to say: "Republicans need real solutions. It's not enough to be just against single payor health care, for example. We've got to discuss how we provide private coverate to apply our principles to the issues that affect people's lives."

Is there going to be, in the next two years, within the Republican Party, a real struggle for the identification of the GOP?

SEN. MARTINEZ: No question about it, and we have to. We have to modernize. There's a great meeting of Republican governors taking place in my state next week, and that is the laboratory of ideas. That's where we got a lot of the resurgence of our party on conservatism -- the fact is that there is a lot of bright stars of our party -- Mitch Daniels had an excellent day on a day when the Republican ticket lost Indiana. He won reelection overwhelmingly. That's because of the kind of governor he's been and the kinds of things that he has done. These are governors who have not been governing as partisans but who have been governing and getting things done for the people.

And the ideas that are germinating in our states, I think, are very exciting, and I think will give rise to the future of our party.

MR. BROKAW: Congressman, you have been personally witness to so many changes in this country in your own lifetime. Here you are, the third most important Democrat in the House of Representatives, a leading spokesman for your party, you represent a congressional district in South Carolina, a part of the Old South. At 11:00 Eastern time this past Tuesday night, when all the networks announced that Barack Obama would be the president-elect of the United States -- what did you think to yourself?

REP. CLYBURN: I was a bit numb when the announcement first came. I was in a group of 1,500 people standing on the stage with my family and friends, and when I turned around, I looked at the monitor. I looked right into the face of my three daughters and two grandchildren, and tears were streaming down their faces, and it struck me that this was really intergenerational. Those of us my age who went through the sit-ins and all of that, we really have felt that we have been lucky to live to see this.

But those were tears of hope. They were tears of vindication. Those of us who stayed with the system, worked within it, the John Lewis's of the world, I said to myself, "We have been vindicated."

MR. BROKAW: Finally, your colleague, Rahm Emanuel, who was a real -- spirit carrier in the House of Representatives leading the charge for the Democratic Party is now going to be the chief-of-staff in the White House. A lot of Republicans kind of have their dukes up already saying, "That's not the best signal to be sending. This is a guy who only played hardball with sharp elbows."

REP. CLYBURN: Look, the chief-of-staff manages the White House on behalf of the president. I think we'd make a big mistake if we confuse governing with managing. Those are two distinctly different things.

Rahm Emanuel is a good manager, he knows policy, he knows the president-elect very, very well, he is an excellent choice, he will do well in that job.

MR. BROKAW: I can tell by the expression on Mel Martinez's face --

SEN. MARTINEZ: I tend to agree. I think you need someone in that job who you can trust, who is going to cover your back at night, and who is smart and can run the train sometimes. I differ with Leader Boehner. I think that Rahm Emanuel, for Barack Obama, is a good choice.

MR. BROKAW: Thank you very much, Senator Mel Martinez of Florida.

REP. CLYBURN: We got an agreement.

MR. BROKAW: We found something to agree on here.

SEN. MARTINEZ: Absolutely.

REP. CLYBURN: Very good.

SEN. MARTINEZ: Absolutely.

MR. BROKAW: Moving to the center, right here on "Meet the Press." Coming up next -- insights and analysis on Decision 2008 and beyond, from our roundtable -- Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jon Meacham, and Mary Mitchell all here -- only on "Meet the Press."

Source