MSNBC "Harball with Chris Matthews" -Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Harball with Chris Matthews" -Transcript

MR. MATTHEWS: We're back with U.S. Congressman Rahm Emanuel of Illinois. He's a member of the House Democratic leadership. And, perhaps most importantly, he's chairman of the Campaign Committee. He's the guy that knows all the races in the country.

Barack Obama -- how well is he doing in the country when you look at your races for the House? How well is he doing nationwide?

REP. EMANUEL: He's doing very, very well. Obviously we're looking at races that are in the marginal swing area. The most important thing consistently we see is he is outperforming the generic Democrat-Republican nominees.

MR. MATTHEWS: So he's running ahead of the party.

REP. EMANUEL: Yeah, as our congressional candidates are.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, that's -- in other words, Barack Obama is a pretty good candidate compared to other presidential candidates over the years.

REP. EMANUEL: Right. But if you go backwards -- just go back two months. One of the concerns people were raising just two months ago was that Barack was barely performing at party levels. He is now exceeding people's identification with the Democratic Party. So if the Democratic Party's got a 47-37 edge in a congressional district, he's exceeding that 47. And that's different than where we were two to three months ago.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, let me ask you the question I asked Governor Paterson. Name the major legislative accomplishment of Barack Obama.

REP. EMANUEL: Legislative accomplishment? Lobbying and ethics reform, changing the rules for lobbyists. One of the reasons we got it done was part of the class that I helped and others helped elect in 2006 said they wanted to change the culture in Washington. He was a sponsor of that legislation in the Senate. And after 30 years from Watergate, no legislation like that had passed. Because of him and others who came to Washington changing it, we made major reform.

MR. MATTHEWS: What's it done to improve Congress?

REP. EMANUEL: Well, one of the things it's -- look, if you step back, campaign finance reform changed the relationship between donors and candidates --

MR. MATTHEWS: McCain-Feingold.

REP. EMANUEL: -- (inaudible). This legislation changed the relationship between lobbyists and legislators and put some distance there, made sure there was transparency, so people knew who was lobbying and who they were lobbying for. The fact is, that's why all the groups -- in fact, the editorial said it's the most significant reform since the Watergate era.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, let's talk about tonight. It seems to me you've got a party and a candidate who are hitting the numbers right now. You're at three weeks out. Does this suggest that it's smart, do no harm tonight, four-corner offense, move the ball around but don't take any shots tonight?

REP. EMANUEL: Oh, no, no. First of all, that's -- you obviously -- if you're going to use a basketball metaphor, given that Barack plays basketball, that's not the way he plays basketball. He's an aggressive player. He's very competitive.

I think tonight is you repeat and you make sure that people understand, this is a fundamental choice, a choice between change and that focuses on the middle class, or stay the course that abandons the middle class, because the policies of the last seven years have allowed the middle class to work harder, earn less and pay more, because their incomes have gone down and their costs have gone up.

Now, if you want to stay with that course, John McCain's your guy. If you want change that focuses on the middle class, you go with Barack. And I'd make sure people know, in this closing argument, which is what this final debate is, the closing argument to the jury, the voters, that, in fact, Barack represents change on behalf of the middle class, the hard-working middle class of this country, and John McCain represents stay the course that's set out by George Bush and the Republicans.

MR. MATTHEWS: We're pre-gaming this big debate tonight. It's going to be 90 minutes. Somewhere during the debate, Bob Schieffer, who's a veteran, will bring up the name Bill Ayers. I can absolutely predict it because it's been a big part of the McCain-Palin campaign. She's accused -- Governor Palin has accused the Democratic candidate for president of "palling around with terrorists." She's talking about --

REP. EMANUEL: Can I --

MR. MATTHEWS: Now, you know Chicago politics. You know the mayor, Richard Daley. You know -- who is Bill Ayers in terms of today's politics --

REP. EMANUEL: Chris --

MR. MATTHEWS: -- in Chicago? Who is he?

REP. EMANUEL: He's a professor at a university, a distinguished professor on education policy and education reform. And people come to Chicago to look at the city because of all the reforms we've done for public education.

But let me get back to --

MR. MATTHEWS: Is he a good guy?

REP. EMANUEL: I don't know him. But let me get back to one thing.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, you just said he's a distinguished person in education.

REP. EMANUEL: Well, he is. But I don't know him well. You asked me, "Is he a good guy?" That's only -- I can only answer that if I knew him.

Second point, and most important point: Bill Ayers is a fixation for John McCain. The American people's fixation is on the fact that they just saw their savings go down the drain on the stock market. The fact is that what they're fixated on is that the jobs today that they're working harder at are paying less. I think that John McCain doesn't understand where the American people are. He's fixated on Bill Ayers and the American people are fixated on their pocketbooks.

MR. MATTHEWS: Is there any way that your candidate, Barack Obama, can get rid of that issue for the next three weeks by answering some questions tonight?

REP. EMANUEL: I think John McCain is wasting his breath, but I'm not in the business of giving him political advice.

MR. MATTHEWS: You're not in the business of what?

REP. EMANUEL: Of giving John McCain political advice.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay. Well, he is going to --

REP. EMANUEL: He is wasting his breath.

MR. MATTHEWS: Let me tell you, I'll tell you what Bob Schieffer's going to do tonight.

REP. EMANUEL: That's fine.

MR. MATTHEWS: He's going to throw that ball in the air. It's going to be a jump ball, and the word on the ball is going to be "Bill Ayers."

REP. EMANUEL: Yeah, but you cannot sustain a debate for 90 minutes when the American people are focused on the economy and you have a debate about Bill Ayers. Barack will answer that question, talk about it, answer it.

And I think that will be satisfying to the American people, because you -- I'm telling you, it is not where -- I've been now in close to 30 districts in the last three months. The American people in my own district, they are holding on by their fingertips economically. And if you think they're concerned about an individual who did something when Barack was eight years old versus what's facing them today, you don't understand the challenges that middle-class families are facing for them and their children's future.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, Rahm Emanuel, one of the leaders of Congress.

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