MSNBC - Transcript

Interview

MR. GREGORY: Joining me now, I'm very pleased to have the governor of South Carolina, Governor Mark Sanford. Sir, welcome.

GOV. SANFORD: Pleasure to be with you. Thanks.

MR. GREGORY: I know you're not endorsing anyone in this race at this point -- you endorsed John McCain back in 2000. So with that as an introduction, how do you handicap this race on the Republican side?

GOV. SANFORD: The way that it's already been handicapped, which is very much as a horse race. I think it'll be down to the wire, I think that a lot of Republicans out there are still out there looking. I mean, I think in the wake of a loss, you're a lot more introspective than you are when you're winning. And if you look at the national level last go-round, Republicans lost big time.

So a lot of folks are really out there going through these candidates' resumes' with an awfully fine-toothed comb.

MR. GREGORY: A lot of undecideds, you're saying.

GOV. SANFORD: Yeah, that's a plain English -- and in short-term, yeah, there are a lot of undecideds -- my understanding, roughly about one in every five Republican voters is still stacking up in the undecided column here in South Carolina, which is remarkable given that, in fact, the -- you know, the election in our state is here tomorrow.

MR. GREGORY: Let's put up some of the latest numbers. The new MSNBC-McClatchy-Mason Dixon poll shows Mike Huckabee trailing John McCain by just two points in South Carolina; it's within the margin of error -- basically, it's a dead heat. And then you look at Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson at 15 percent, 13 percent. A lot of people think this is Fred Thompson's only chance to emerge in this campaign. Mitt Romney's got some issues there as well.

But first, let me ask you this. As you look at a dead heat between McCain and Huckabee -- you know both of these candidates, you know McCain, perhaps, even better. Talk -- for political junkies out there, how do you win as a Republican in this state? Analyze the state for me. And then, who do you think has an advantage?

GOV. SANFORD: I won't give you the advantage part, but what I --

MR. GREGORY: (Chuckles.)

GOV. SANFORD: -- would say is I think that there are a number of things that are awfully important to South Carolinians just as they're important to folks in other states and across this country. One is America's place in the world and national security absolutely matters.

If you look at the number of active duty bases, if you look at the number of Guard and Reserve units in this state, if you look at the -- we have the largest deployment, for instance, since World War II, of National Guard troops in our state's history, with folks over in the Middle East right now. You look at the number of bases across our state, there's a surprising military presence both active duty and retired here in our state. So I think that'll play, and I think the economy -- I guess it was Carville that said, "It's the economy, stupid." It's always the economy, stupid. And so people will be watching pocketbook issues and how these candidates are going to impact their paycheck or their chance at having a paycheck here in South Carolina.

MR. GREGORY: Is your state in a recession?

GOV. SANFORD: No, but, you know, I gave my State of the State the night before last, and I talked about the fact that you can go back as far as Biblical times and look at seven skinny cows and seven fat cows coming out of the Nile to recognize this notion that cycles are not a new thing -- that there've been an up-and-down, and we're in a downward movement, reflecting what's happening in the national economy at large. In some cases, we're doing a little better than the national economy based on, you know, a huge influx of retirees coming to our state.

But our economy is certainly going to reflect what happens with the national economy, and at the national level, it's certainly slowing.

MR. GREGORY: You talk about the Bible and Joseph's ability to forecast through dreams, let me ask you to make this particular forecast, which is do you think that the GOP is actually -- the GOP nominee is actually running at the moment?

GOV. SANFORD: Yeah. I don't think there's a -- the new Moses that's going to come down off the mountain. You know, that's one of the funny things about this election. We're taking everything in a Biblical analogy here. But, in some ways, the Moses of the Republican Party time, in recent history, was Reagan. And a lot of folks out there, when I move around the state, have been looking for the next Reagan.

The reality is the next Reagan doesn't exist. The reality is that we're in the 21st Century, you've got a number of great candidates, each of which has some different strong points and each of which has some different weak points. And we've got to pick one of them to be our nominee and to move forward this election, the big election, which comes in November.

MR. GREGORY: All right. Governor Mark Sanford, thanks very much for taking the time.

GOV. SANFORD: My pleasure.

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