MSNBC "Tucker" - Transcript

MSNBC "Tucker" - Transcript

MR. CARLSON: We begin with the latest potential bump in Barack Obama's road to the White House -- his answers to a 1996 campaign questionnaire that paint him as surprisingly left of center.

Joining me now, a key Obama supporter, Democratic congressman from the state of Washington, Adam Smith.

Congressman, thanks for coming on.

REP. SMITH: Thanks for having me, Tucker. I appreciate the opportunity.

MR. CARLSON: He supports the banning of the manufacture, sale or possession of handguns. That's not a mainstream view.

REP. SMITH: And it's not one that he holds. He does not support that. And I think when you look at this memo -- and the explanation has been clear -- he didn't fill it out and he did not support those positions then. The easy thing to do is -- you know, Senator Obama has spoken about these issues many times other than in this one document, and he has never supported the banning of handguns.

MR. CARLSON: Wait a second. This document, it doesn't say, "What does your candidate support?" It says, "What do you support?" And it was filled out as if by him.

REP. SMITH: But Tucker --

MR. CARLSON: He's the candidate running on the authenticity platform, and now he says he never even saw it? Is that what he's saying?

REP. SMITH: Yeah. Do you have any idea how many questionnaires show up during the course of a campaign? I do. I've run in those campaigns.

MR. CARLSON: Right.

REP. SMITH: The more important question is, if this is Senator Obama's position, as you claim, if it ever was his position, then there ought to be many examples of him taking it --

MR. CARLSON: Hold on.

REP. SMITH: No, no. Tucker, Tucker --

MR. CARLSON: Just real quickly, I'm not claiming that.

REP. SMITH: -- you have to let me make the point.

MR. CARLSON: Hold on. Congressman, I'm not claiming it's Obama's position. Obama claimed it was Obama's position.

REP. SMITH: No, no, no, no.

MR. CARLSON: This has his name on it. He got the support of the group that printed this questionnaire.

REP. SMITH: Tucker --

MR. CARLSON: So all these years he never corrected it?

REP. SMITH: This is ridiculous.

MR. CARLSON: It's an honest -- it's not ridiculous. It's an honest question.

REP. SMITH: But the statement you just made is totally wrong. "All these years he never corrected it." He corrected it every time he made it clear that he doesn't hold those positions.

MR. CARLSON: Well, then, why did he take their endorsement?

REP. SMITH: Why did he seek their endorsement?

MR. CARLSON: No, he accepted their endorsement after filling out, apparently in a phony way, or having his staff fill out incorrectly, this document.

REP. SMITH: But Tucker, we can -- I will stipulate to this. In 1996, it appears that state senate candidate Barack Obama made a mistake in how a single questionnaire was filled out. I doubt there is any candidate in the history of politics who doesn't have at least one questionnaire during the course of a campaign where they didn't make a similar mistake.

MR. CARLSON: Okay.

REP. SMITH: I will stipulate to that. I will give you that.

MR. CARLSON: Okay.

REP. SMITH: The important issue is what is his position on those issues?

MR. CARLSON: You're absolutely right.

REP. SMITH: And that is not it.

MR. CARLSON: Okay, but hold on. Let me just --

REP. SMITH: He has made that clear repeatedly.

MR. CARLSON: Okay. Your macro point is absolutely correct.

REP. SMITH: Good. Can we move on then?

MR. CARLSON: And as I've said 20 times on this program, I like Barack Obama. If I were a Democrat, I'd vote for him. I hope he crushes Hillary Clinton.

REP. SMITH: We're making progress.

MR. CARLSON: On the other hand, I'm holding him to the same standards I would hold any candidate. His campaign manager filled this out.

REP. SMITH: Sure.

MR. CARLSON: That's not a small thing. She presumably believed she was speaking for him. Why did she think --

REP. SMITH: In 1996, the state senate campaign of Barack Obama made a mistake on this questionnaire. Congrats. You got us.

MR. CARLSON: Okay.

REP. SMITH: Now can we actually move on to the issues that matter in this race?

MR. CARLSON: Okay. Let's do just that. I'm glad you suggested it.

REP. SMITH: Those are not his positions on those issues.

MR. CARLSON: On this questionnaire, he says, "I support no more restrictions on abortion." Is that true? And if not, what are the restrictions he supports on abortion?

REP. SMITH: To be honest, I'm not sure of all of the positions on the different aspects of abortion. I know more on the other issues.

MR. CARLSON: Okay. Well, okay, let's move on to the next one.

REP. SMITH: I know, for instance, on the death penalty, he does not support completely banning the death penalty.

What he supported was the moratorium that Illinois did when it was discovered that so many people have been falsely accused, had gotten very close to being executed on death row. He supports a more judicious use of the death penalty, and he's been clear on that for quite some time.

MR. CARLSON: So he's not against the death penalty philosophically. He just wants to make certain that it's applied correctly and fairly.

REP. SMITH: Exactly, that we don't execute innocent people.

MR. CARLSON: That's fine. He also says in this he supports a single-payer health care system. He has corrected himself over the years and said, "I don't support actually implementing it" --

REP. SMITH: Correct.

MR. CARLSON: -- "but I support the idea of it." And I don't understand that position.

REP. SMITH: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Where did he say he supports the idea of it?

MR. CARLSON: My understanding -- and I may be wrong --

REP. SMITH: In that questionnaire --

MR. CARLSON: No, no, no. Presently, I believe Barack Obama's position is the best system is a single --

REP. SMITH: That's not true.

MR. CARLSON: That's not true?

REP. SMITH: Barack Obama's position on health care is about as detailed as you can get.

MR. CARLSON: Right.

REP. SMITH: He's put out a lengthy and extensive plan that calls for universal access. What he may be saying is he supports the idea that everybody ought to have health care. He supports universal access.

MR. CARLSON: Well, here's --

REP. SMITH: He doesn't support the single-payer system as the way to get there.

MR. CARLSON: Here's what the Politico says today, and I'm quoting. "The campaign," meaning the Obama campaign, "says Obama has consistently supported single-payer health care in principle."

REP. SMITH: I don't -- that does not strike me as accurate. I think he's consistently supported universal access to health care, making sure that everybody has health care in this country. That's why he put out the detailed plan that he put out -- a plan which, by the way, also focuses on what is equally important, and that is getting the cost of health care under control so that people can actually afford it.

MR. CARLSON: Okay. See, to this point, my reading is Obama has run a campaign that has been about two things -- change, generational change, a fresh start for America --

REP. SMITH: Absolutely.

MR. CARLSON: -- and not being Hillary Clinton.

REP. SMITH: (Laughs.)

MR. CARLSON: And those are two great things to run on, and I hope he wins on the basis of those. However, if he does win, he's going to be asked very hard-nosed questions about what he believes.

REP. SMITH: Absolutely.

MR. CARLSON: And it seems to me, based on just watching him talk for the past year, he is, in fact, probably more liberal than Hillary Clinton. Will that hurt him in the general election?

REP. SMITH: Well, it's a hard thing to judge. It really depends on the issue. I mean, we like labels for the purposes of television commentary --

MR. CARLSON: No, not just television.

REP. SMITH: -- the liberal and the conservative.

MR. CARLSON: Voters use labels too.

REP. SMITH: Yeah. I think it's more important to focus on the substance of the issue. And like I said, when it comes to health care, both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama and a number of other candidates in the race have very detailed positions on it. Those are some that we don't have to guess or rely on what either you or I have to say. They've laid out very clear positions on what they would like to do on that issue.

MR. CARLSON: Well, again, the Politico is claiming that the Obama campaign agrees in theory with the idea that government should be in control of the way health care is distributed in this country. And philosophically, that's kind of a big statement to make.

REP. SMITH: Yeah, and I don't think that's accurate. I really don't think that's an accurate description of where Senator Obama is coming from. Again, he wants universal access. He also recognizes that the government has a role to play, certainly through Medicare and Medicaid, and I think in a number of other areas, to try to help make sure that people can afford health care. He does not want the government completely running our health care system like they do in Canada and other places. He's been very consistent on that. If he wanted that, he would have put it in his plan.

MR. CARLSON: The New York Times today, finally, contains an e- mail, reprints an e-mail from a Hillary Clinton staffer, fairly high- level member of her staff, poking around, trying to get information, opposition research on Senator Obama's years as a community organizer in Chicago. Do you think that that's fair? Is that within bounds for the Hillary campaign to do that?

REP. SMITH: Well, I mean, they've gone all the way back to his kindergarten days already.

MR. CARLSON: Yes, they have. (Laughs.)

REP. SMITH: So apparently they're going to leave no stone unturned. Look, here is the important thing about this race. Senator Obama represents change, and that's why he's moving in the polls. We talked a couple of months ago, and I remember you were very concerned that he wasn't moving --

MR. CARLSON: Yes.

REP. SMITH: -- that he wasn't making progress. And I told you then, "It's the four weeks before Iowa, the four weeks before New Hampshire, that matter."

MR. CARLSON: Yes.

REP. SMITH: That's when people start to focus. That is now, and that is when Senator Obama is making his move, because people don't want to go back to 1992 again. They want change. They want to move forward. And as I've said before, you know, Bill and Hillary Clinton were the candidates of change in 1992, and good for them. But it's 2007, going into 2008, and Senator Obama is the candidate of change for now and moving forward. And I think that's the message he's delivering, and that's why he's moving in the polls in all of the key states, and even nationally.

MR. CARLSON: Yeah, I must -- I thought literally yesterday morning about that conversation you and I had. And I said, "When is he going to move?" And you said, "Hold tight. In the last month, he will start to move." And you were right. I'll concede it right now.

Congressman, thanks a lot for coming on. I appreciate it.

REP. SMITH: Thanks for the chance.

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