Hearing of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations' Subcommittee on Near East and Asia- International Climate Change Negotiations Panel I

Interview

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SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R-NE): Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Madame Secretary, welcome.

Secretary Dobriansky, you and I have, on many occasions, had many of these same conversations. And I wanted to refer back to the general theme of Senator Lugar's comments, because I think what he has focused on -- and as you know, through our previous conversations and some of what you talked about in the Asia Pacific framework and the technology sharing, public and private partnerships -- came as a direct result of my legislation that was the environmental title of the Energy Act of 2005.

I have always believed that we cannot realistically talk about, look at environmental policy without integrating energy and economic policy. And I think much of the discussion today reflects that point. And so as Senator Lugar took you through a number of those issues, I want to reflect on generally the integration of those three components -- specifically on what you can tell us might be the form that we will see begin to take shape in Bali with the integration of those three dynamics. The president of China, for example, I think in September at the APEC meeting, said -- and I think it was this direct -- that China would not be held hostage to any mandatory requirements on the issue of emissions -- carbon emissions.

Now, I assume that the president China speaks for China and reflects China's position -- as was the case in Indonesia, as will be the case in Bali. So how -- in what form are you going to integrate all of this so that at some point we are going to hopefully come out of Bali with something tangible, productive and positive?

MS. DOBRIANSKY: Well, two comments. First, in terms of Bali, I think that -- as I've indicated -- our fundamental goal and objective is to identify what are the core elements that we need to address in the post-2012 framework that we need to have a process forward? We need to identify ways of advancing and pushing that process forward. Because clearly, going into Bali, there are differing viewpoints about how one is committed.

The one fundamental goal and objective that we have going into this is to have a global agreement that is environmentally effective -- as I've mentioned -- and economically sustainable. And by putting forward the major economies meeting, we're striving to bring these countries that are 80 percent the biggest energy users, 80 percent in terms of their economic output, and also 80 percent of emitters to forge the most robust and effective way of reducing emissions. You're quite right in stating -- you mentioned one. I can think of others. As I mentioned previously to Senator Nelson's question to me, we have posed the question to a number of developing countries: Well, what if we took on certain measures, what would you do?

Here technology matters greatly. Economic growth matters greatly to the developing world. We think that there's a dire need to look at the most innovative ways and practical ways of bringing these countries in. Why I cited the Asia-Pacific partners, and which -- as you've indicated, we've had conversations about this, and given your legislation -- that we have tried to have practical ways of bringing other countries into this fold to see that there are benefits to be accrued from taking very concrete and tangible steps here that have economic consequences, but also have consequences in terms of energy security -- and that at the same time, by the way, we'll also reduce greenhouse gas emissions, which is part of our goal and objective.

What I could say to you is -- is that our effort is to try to get a successful roadmap and to try to work vigorously with all of these partners -- particularly the emerging countries -- to address the kinds of concerns that they have.

If I may give one more example: We put for the -- President Bush announced the formation of an international clean energy find. Why? Because there's a need to have others come forward -- including developing countries -- in providing investments in this area. It's not only in their interests and our interests; it's in the world's interests. It's in the planet's interests, specifically. Those are the kinds of initiatives that we are trying to come forward with.

I would say that there's a dire need for innovation here. We welcome this opportunity to come forward and have this discussion and to continue it, because innovation is really needed as we go forward.

SEN. HAGEL: Thank you, Madame Secretary.

Mr. Chairman.

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