CNBC "Kudlow & Company" - Transcript

Interview

CNBC "Kudlow & Company" - Transcript

MR. KUDLOW: Listen to what is being reported in this morning's Washington Times. One scenario being taken seriously by Iraq is the "U.S.-trained army would overthrow struggling Prime Minister al-Maliki and replace him with a strongman who would restore order while Washington looks the other way." The article goes on to say the coup in Baghdad "is being widely talked about in Iraq and in neighboring countries both on the streets and among senior political and military officials."

Wow, that one is a blockbuster. Joining me is Senator Sam Brownback, Republican from Kansas; Senator Ken Salazar, Democrat from Colorado. Mr. Brownback is trying to get connected.

Mr. Salazar, you're stuck with me alone, but it is a great pleasure to see you back on the program. First of all, sir, what do you make of this Iraqi coup talk? You know, there have been loose references by James Baker, who's supposed to give a new summary to the president after the election, that maybe democracy is not as important as stability, and maybe an Iraqi strongman would be the way to go. You put any credence in this, sir?

SEN. SALAZAR: I don't. I don't think that an Iraqi coup is something that anybody would seriously entertain. I do think that we do need a new direction, and we need new leadership. I think our strategy ought to be to be successful in Iraq. But frankly, I think when you look at what's happening on the ground today, you have to conclude that we've had failed leadership and a failed strategy. And so we need to move forward with a new direction. I would hope that once we get beyond the elections that what the president does is to bring together a bipartisan group of people and to put all options on the table, including the options that former Secretary Baker will put on the table, and we can figure out how to move forward in Iraq.

MR. KUDLOW: Well, what if an Iraq coup is one of the options? I mean, you know, the way this story is being reported is that ex-Saddam generals would work to overthrow Maliki, probably put in former Prime Minister Alawi, who would be the strongman. Essentially, the Saddamites that we threw out a couple of years ago would come back into power in support of Alawi, and the United States armed forces would either look the other way or, in some sense, might be embedded in this. Does it have any credibility, Mr. Salazar?

SEN. SALAZAR: You know, I don't think it has any credibility. It seems to me that there's been a democratic process in Iraq that has led to the election of these leaders. And what we need to do is to have a policy that's worthy of our troops, and a policy that's going to lead us to succeed in Iraq.

Now, from my point of view, what that means is the president needs to stop playing politics with the issue of Iraq. We need to get Democrats and Republicans together to figure out what those next steps are. It may mean that we need to confederate Iraq, and that we need to develop an oil trust where the oil revenues can be shared among the three tribes in Iraq. And we might need to have a world summit, or at least a regional summit, to come in and help put the pieces together.

But right now, Humpty Dumpty is broken, it's fallen off the wall in Iraq, and it's very important that we have some leadership and a reality check in the administration. You know, I think Woodward's book on a state of denial says it all about what's been happening in the United States the last couple of years with this war. And I think it's important that the president acknowledges mistakes have been made. But I think, as both Colin Powell and President Clinton have said, the egg has been broken, it's been broken, now we got to make an omelet out of it.

MR. KUDLOW: All right, I appreciate that. We've got Senator Brownback strapped in, I think, if I can see Senator Brownback --

SEN. BROWNBACK: Yes, you do. Hi, Larry.

MR. KUDLOW: Hello, Sam. Great to see you. Sam, we've been talking about this report from The Washington Times of an Iraqi coup. Ex-Saddam generals with the United States military, either looking the other way or assisting in some way, would overthrow Maliki, who has proven to be ineffectual. As Senator Salazar has said, the egg is broken over there, we've got to put it back together again. James Baker has said, without endorsing a coup -- Lord knows -- but he has said democracy may not be the most important thing; perhaps stability is. Your thoughts, Senator Brownback?

SEN. BROWNBACK: Well, we've got to have a political solution, and I disagree with the coup solution altogether. Maliki's government hasn't been in place for four months. This really needs a bit of time to be able to work, but we've got to move towards a political solution. And what I think you're going to have to see take place -- you saw the Iraqi parliament start to discuss this the other day -- is some sort of regional autonomy underneath one country where you can allow people to break into some separate parts under one country so that we can move to a political solution. And right now, you've got Sunnis and Shi'ites fighting at each other. Clearly, we're not getting to a political solution.

Now, I do look forward to the Baker-Hamilton commission report so we can look at some different sort of ideas of the end game that we move towards. But I think this idea of maybe the three autonomous regions within one country may be the one that we start to move more and more towards.

MR. KUDLOW: A lot of people are talking about that. Senator Salazar mentioned it. He talked about dividing up the oil commissions. I think these are very sensible ideas. But I guess I'll ask a contrarian, you've got neighborhoods -- Sunnis fighting Shi'as -- all over Iraq, particularly in Baghdad and the near Baghdad cities. Why would that change? Autonomous regions sounds great, but unfortunately, Iraq is not Switzerland. Do you really believe the hostilities and the civil war would stop if we called it something else?

SEN. BROWNBACK: Well, where are we headed to today? I mean, you've got these factions that are fighting, that have been taking place, that have been energized and are moving on forward. And I look at the situation like, say, in Yugoslavia where this was one country when you had a Tito as a dictator sitting on top of it. You blow that lid off, and here's a whole bunch of factions that have not really come together, and they did sort out, and it has calmed down much more today. It's still not completely calmed down.

But I think you have to start looking at those form of solutions. Now, I'm not saying that that is it. And the Iraqi parliament, apparently, is starting to look at those resolutions as well as a political solution, because this can't be so military.

MR. KUDLOW: May I ask you both a very quick question, and I need a lightning answer, is there a strategy to win left in this debate?

Mr. Salazar.

SEN. SALAZAR: You know, I think the concept of a federation into three different autonomous regions -- that's essentially where Iraq was in its British colonial period, so I think there's merit in that idea. But I just think stay the course is not doing anything different. So that's why I think we need these new ideas, and we need to pursue them as a country.

MR. KUDLOW: All right, appreciate that.

Mr. Brownback, is there a strategy for victory left in this discussion?

SEN. BROWNBACK: Yes, there is, and we've got to pursue it, and we can't cut and run.

MR. KUDLOW: All right, there you have it succinctly put.

Senator Sam Brownback and Mr. Salazar, thank you very much. We haven't seen you in a while. Congratulations on all your political triumphs.

Source