MSNBC Hardball-Transcript

MSNBC Hardball-Transcript

MATTHEWS: All right. The good old House Rules Committee. Thank you very much, Mike Viqueira.

Democratic Senator Jon Tester of Montana is a member of the Homeland Security and the Veterans‘ Affairs Committee. He says the Warner resolution is just the first step the Congress needs to take. Are you hopeful that there will be a vote by those seven Republicans and most of the Democrats to state your opposition to this surge of troops into Iraq?

SEN. JON TESTER, (D) MT: Absolutely. I‘m actually disappointed that the cloture vote didn‘t come to fruition so we could have that debate and have that vote this week. Now we‘ve got a situation where we have the continuing resolution that‘s going to come up that we have to get voted on and passed by midnight a week from today otherwise potentially the government shuts down.

So, I think without being too critical, we really have wasted some time this week where we could have been debating that surge, augmentation, escalation, whatever you want to call it, proposal by the president and really give the president a clear sign of where the U.S. Senate was on this issue.

MATTHEWS: If you want to give them a clear sign, why not let the Republicans have their motion forward as well which says cut off the funds so then you‘d have to see that your side would win on the resolution, the nonbinding aspect of criticizing the president but you‘d probably fall short and divide as a party of cutting off funding for the troops. What‘s wrong with giving the Republicans a chance to show how your party is divided if you‘re showing how their party is divided?

TESTER: I think first of all if you can‘t get enough votes for cloture on a resolution dealing with the surge that the president proposed which is really the issue that‘s in front of this country right now is a surge of additional troops into Iraq, you know, I think, the proposal about cutting funding off for the troops and the war in Iraq and how it‘s been administered and how the political leadership has failed on that, there‘s been plenty of time to talk about that over the last four years and .

MATTHEWS: What‘s wrong with voting on both at the same time?

TESTER: Because I think the issue before us now is the escalation, Chris, and I think that‘s what‘s really important. The president proposed an escalation for Iraq. I think we need to deal with that first. I agree it is the first step and we can deal with that other stuff later.

MATTHEWS: Let me tell you, a lot of people out there, and you know them, who want to see the money cut off. They want to see the Congress say no more war and make it stick. There are people who want more than a resolution. They want somebody to say I‘m cutting off funding for this war because it‘s the only way to stop this war. Shouldn‘t those people get a vote?

TESTER: First thing‘s first. The escalation—if we can‘t get a vote on the escalation, we‘re certainly not going to get a vote on any other thing that deals with the war in Iraq. Whether it‘s troop caps or whether it ...

MATTHEWS: One of the danger flags the Republicans especially have put up is any time there‘s a debate on this war that it hurts the morale of the troops. Let‘s hear what General Peter Pace had to say just yesterday on that very point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN MCHUGH, ® NY: Gentlemen, I‘d like your honest, forthright, candid advice to this committee as we are beginning at the Senate is now to consider non-binding resolutions that express concerns and lack of support for the surge mission, how that might be received by the troops in the field?

GEN. PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Sure, I‘ll start. There is no doubt in my mind that the dialogue here in Washington strengthens our democracy. Period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, there you have it. That‘s pretty impressive from a man with all those ribbons on to say it‘s OK to have a democracy here because we‘re fighting for one over there.

TESTER: Yes. I think we‘ve lost tremendous amount of lives, we‘ve spend what, $500 billion on the war. Potentially could be another $200 billion by the end of the year. I think it‘s appropriate we debate the issue.

MATTHEWS: Is it important to have the support of a general like that to say it‘s OK to exercise your rights as a senator? Or don‘t you need that?

TESTER: I don‘t think need that but I‘m glad he said what he said.

MATTHEWS: Do you think that‘s going to affect the course of the debate and allow the Republicans especially more opportunity to debate this issue.

TESTER: I think—I‘ve been here for a month. Iraq has been the issue. The overwhelming, overarching issue that‘s taken all of the air out of the room. I don‘t know if you‘re talking about minimum wage or ethics, it doesn‘t matter. Iraq still there. It really is time .

MATTHEWS: True here, by the way. Let me look at the senators. Chuck Hagel, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, both of them from Maine, of Course, Republicans, Voinovich of Ohio, Gordon Smith of Oregon, Norm Coleman of Minnesota.

You can get a little cynical here and point out the following that Voinovich just saw Sherrod Brown knock off his colleague. Mike DeWine, a good guy. He got knocked off, Mike DeWine in Ohio. You have got to figure Voinovich is worried.

You‘ve got to figure anybody from Oregon which is a well known an anti-war state for years going back to the McCarthy-Kennedy campaign back in ‘68 and you‘ve got to look at Coleman and wonder if he doesn‘t see Al Franken coming or somebody like him on the Democratic side—is this what‘s shifting the debate against the war? The Democratic, Republican, concern, whatever, the concern for re-election?

TESTER: I hope not.

MATTHEWS: Why not? What‘s wrong with the voters having some power in this country?

TESTER: I think the voters do have power in this country. And they showed it in the last election. But what I really hope promotes people to debate this is the fact that this country is in the middle of a quagmire where there‘s no end in sight for this war and there‘s no plan and there still is no plan.

MATTHEWS: What are - without naming them, perhaps, why are your Republican senators who are opposed to this surge who agree with you, that it‘s not good to escalate this war, let alone whatever, what did they say to you when they voted party line early this week to oppose any kind of vote on the floor?

TESTER: To be honest, I didn‘t quiz them on it and I don‘t know why they did what they did. We need more than seven to get cloture. We need 11 I believe.

MATTHEWS: You don‘t get Lieberman and you don‘t get Tim Johnson. He is ill.

TESTER: Right. So we need four more to get cloture so we can debate and vote on it. And I don‘t know why they did what they did and I don‘t know why the two Republicans who voted for cloture did either. But I do know that this is a critically important issue and I do know the fact that the president stepped forward about a month ago and saying, we‘re going to put up in another 21,500 that ends up to be closer to 50,000 troops into Iraq, I think that needs to be discussed.

MATTHEWS: "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington", I‘m told, the book I think was from Montana. The gentleman from Montana? Isn‘t it? Jimmy Stewart was from Montana?

I am getting close to what I want you to do now because asked Jim Webb, another senators, why don‘t you go on the floor right now, go over to the floor, ask for the floor and begin to filibuster and say, I want to vote and stay there until you get a vote? Why don‘t you go on the floor and demand a vote? If you really had the passion of people like moveon.org out there, the people who really want to stop the war, why don‘t you act like it? I‘m is not a senator. I‘m egging you on here, obviously.

TESTER: First of all I would hope that we can get things done without having a filibuster.

MATTHEWS: But that ain‘t happening.

TESTER: You‘re right it‘s not happening but we have a continuing resolution now that we have to deal with or the government shuts down period and there are a lot of people depending upon government dollars.

MATTHEWS: Maybe you can shut the war down this way.

TESTER: That might be a possibility. We‘ve been here a month.

MATTHEWS: You‘re not getting institutionalist are you, senator? You are using words cloture. Are you falling into the Mondale trap here of talking like these guys? Next you‘ll be asking for a moment of personal privilege, start talking like these people.

TESTER: I wished I could but I‘ll never be there. The fact is that this war needs to be debated for all the right reasons. We shouldn‘t have to filibuster this debate. Or filibuster to get a debate.

MATTHEWS: Maybe you may have to. Because I hear these institutional strains in your voice already and it‘s going a little worried. You‘re not going over to the crazy side are you? Jon Stewart said that the other night to McCain, I really respect the fact that you run for the senate. We need more people to run for the Senate and have the guts to take on the system. Thank you for that.

TESTER: Thank you, Chris.

MATTHEWS: I love democracy and I love the fact that it works sometimes. Thank you. The crew cut guy. Mr. Tester.

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