MSNBC Tucker - Transcript

MSNBC Tucker - Transcript

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CARLSON: Joining us now, Congressman Jack Murtha.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

Did you expect six days before the midterm election to see it blow up like this from John Kerry? Is this a surprise?

REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, it‘s unfortunate and it distracts form the real issues. That‘s the problem.

He‘s got to explain—there‘s no question in my mind he doesn‘t try to denigrate the troops, but how he said it certainly looks that way. So he needs to explain what he was trying to do. But it‘s unfortunate and it‘s distracting from the real situation on the ground.

CARLSON: Right.

MURTHA: You know, I‘ve been saying over and over again, we have to redeploy our troops and we just can‘t be distracted by the mistakes that these guys are making.

CARLSON: But you often hear—or you sometimes hear, anyway, Democrats make the case, Charlie Rangel has said this many times on the floor of the House of Representatives, that wars in America are fought by the poor. Whether that‘s true or not, that‘s another question. But that‘s the argument some Democrats have made over the years, and that people who don‘t have options wind up joining the military and fighting on behalf of the rest of us, which would pretty much be what John Kerry is accused of saying.

You don‘t think that‘s what he meant to say?

MURTHA: Well, the way he said it is a problem. And of course I‘ve always been for the draft, because I think this ought to be shared. I don‘t think just a few people ought to serve.

We have a very small proportion of people in this country making the sacrifice—them and their families. They are going back over and over again. It‘s a tremendous strain.

We‘re going to have a lot of problems after this war winds down with post-traumatic stress, with a lot of physical and emotional problems. And one of the reasons is they go back so often and the mission is not discernible to them.

CARLSON: Right.

MURTHA: They don‘t understand what they‘re doing. We don‘t have an achievable mission by—for the military, for their families, and for the troops.

CARLSON: John Kerry made the point yesterday in his back and forth with the White House on this question that Republicans like to attack veterans. And you really got the sense from his statements on the subject of outrage, this idea that it‘s illegitimate somehow to attack a man who has served in combat if the person who is doing the attacking hasn‘t served. That really only veterans can comment on war.

What do you think of that as a veteran?

MURTHA: Well, Tucker, I don‘t agree with that. I think when somebody makes a mistake they should be attacked. But we have to get away from this vicious attacks.

One of the—one of the problems we have in the Congress itself right now is the instability, the fact that people are criticizing and not looking for solutions. Instead of—instead of talking positively, working together—we only work two days a week, as you know. I don‘t have to tell you.

CARLSON: Yes, I did know that.

MURTHA: And you don‘t—you‘re not able to solve problems that way. What I‘m getting at is the point you have to be civil about these things.

You have to understand, he‘s not attacking the troops. What he‘s trying to do is get a point across, I guess.

But, you know, we‘ve got people who are sitting in their offices who are saying stay the course. But the point is, there‘s a policy difference between us and the president. Most Democrats voted against the war. And yet, most Democrats, almost all Democrats, vote to support the troops.

CARLSON: Right.

Do you fear—I mean, the president‘s position is, you k now, things may be bad in Iraq but they could be worse. And if we pull out American troops, there‘ll be a victory for terrorists and the country will become even more chaotic than it is.

Do you fear that? I mean, do you fear if when we leave that the place will become even more dangerous than it is?

MURTHA: I see the opposite. And the Iraqis believe the opposite.

They have more confidence in their own people. And you see what Maliki is trying to do. The prime minister is trying to make himself more independent, have more—the people right now in Iraq have more confidence, and they say when we leave—the polls indicate there will be less chaos.

There‘s only 1,000 foreign fighters over there. It‘s a civil war, and that‘s what our troops are caught in between.

We can‘t solve a civil war. We can‘t win this militarily, Tucker. This has to be won by the Iraqis.

CARLSON: Right.

MURTHA: They have to take the responsibility themselves.

CARLSON: What about Iran and Turkey and Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the countries that border Iraq that obviously have interest in Iraq? Were we to leave, wouldn‘t that increase the influence of, say, the Iranians in Iraq?

MURTHA: Let me tell you, we‘re going to leave there one way or the other. And it‘s just a matter of when we‘re going to leave and how we‘re going to leave.

What we have to do—this administration has backed itself into a corner because they attack anybody who has a difference of opinion with them. And so they demonize a policy difference with what they have.

Now, we have to solve this diplomatically. We have to go to these other countries. We have to explain we‘ve done everything we can do militarily, now we need your help in trying to work for stability in the Middle East in particular.

We‘re not deserting Iraq. We have diverted ourselves from terrorism, as you know, Tucker.

CARLSON: Yes.

MURTHA: We‘ve diverted ourselves from terrorism in Afghanistan, where you had the Taliban, a war of choice, an independent country we attacked, and now they‘re in a mess and they‘re trying to figure out how to blame the Democrats for it.

This is—this is a serious problem where you need bipartisan solutions to it. And we can‘t be disagreeing with each other viscerally. We have to look for ways to solve the problem. That‘s what it amounts to.

CARLSON: I tend to agree with you. And given that you feel that way and that you‘re for a return to civility in politics—and good for you—I wonder what you make of this. This is part of Senator Kerry‘s statement yesterday. He‘s responding to comments made by Tony Snow, the White House spokesman.

He said, "I‘m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium or doughy Rush Limbaugh."

I wonder what Rush Limbaugh‘s weight has to do with the issue of Iraq.

MURTHA: Well, this is the problem we have gotten into. On the floor every day they get up (INAUDIBLE) and they attack each other, and many time attack people personally.

I remember when I came up with an issue, a substantive recommendation to this administration, a woman got up who had been in Congress two months and she attacked me and attacked my patriotism. I mean, for heaven sakes.

You know, when you got a legitimate policy recommendation, look at it. I sent a letter to the president. Seven months later, I get a response from an underling in the Defense Department.

CARLSON: Yes.

MURTHA: Those are the kinds of things that are frustrating to us. We need to start to focus on how we solve this problem, how we reduce our dependence by not deserting Iraq, but by stabilizing it and let them settle it themselves.

CARLSON: And also pointless. I mean, seven months to reply. I mean, I agree with you. There‘s no reason—I mean, that‘s rude and that just alienates people.

Anyway, Congressman Murtha, I appreciate your coming on.

Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania.

Thanks.

MURTHA: Nice talking to you, Tucker.

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