Presidential Race and Campaign Finance Reform (Interview)

ANCHORS: BOB SCHIEFFER

BOB SCHIEFFER, host: And joining us from Cottonwood, Arizona, Senator John McCain.

Senator, welcome.

Senator JOHN McCAIN (GOP Presidential Candidate; Republican, Arizona): Good morning, Bob, Gloria.

SCHIEFFER: First question, obviously, George Bush has now raised $ 36 million-plus. How can any other Republican candidate now compete against that?

Sen. McCAIN: I think that if history proves true, there will come a time in New Hampshire and South Carolina and Iowa where people will begin to examine the candidates' positions on the issues, and there'll be plenty of debates in order for them to be able to do that. Most people, obviously, don't pay a lot of attention a—at this time. There's been some very wealthy candidates who have not done very well in the past, and I congratulate Governor Bush on raising the money he has, but I—I don't believe we're going to have a coronation. We've never had one before, and I don't think we're going to have one this time.

GLORIA BORGER (CBS News; US News & World Report): Could Governor Bush be hurt as the big-money candidate now, the fellow who is the captive of special interests, Senator?

Sen. McCAIN: I—I don't know, Gloria. I d—I didn't—I can't make that interpretation. As you know, my efforts towards campaign finance reform have been devoted to the soft money, which has corrupted the legislative and political process. And Governor Bush, as far as I know, has raised his, and according to the rules as they are.

BORGER: Well, what if he refuses these federal matching funds, Senator? Which would mean that if you don't take these federal matching funds, that means that in the early primary caucus states, you can spend as much money as you want. Word is, he's going to try and do that. What signal does that send to the American voter?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, I—I think the American voter will have to make that judgment, but it—it certainly is unfortunate that he, Mr. Forbes, the last time around, and I understand this time around, are doing that, because the whole intent of the law was to prevent what is—what they may do. But that's a decision they'll have to make. I intend, obviously, to—to go the matching-fund route, and I say that with a smile, because I don't—don't envision raising the kind of money that Governor Bush is raising, nor having the money that Mr. Forbes has.

BORGER: Is that a mistake?

Sen. McCAIN: No. I—I...

BORGER: For Bush?

Sen. McCAIN: ...I don't—I don't—I don't—I can't make that judgment. I think—I think mainly people will be judging the candidates on their positions and how they articulate their vision for the future of the country.

SCHIEFFER: Senator, let me ask you something about your colleague and your leader, the Republican leader in the Senate, Trent Lott. He—I'm coming to the conclusion that he simply does not wish your presidential campaign well. Let's show our viewers what he said about you last week. He said you ought to stay and do your work in the Senate, and here's how he put it.

Senator TRENT LOTT (Senate Majority Leader): (From footage) He's got a lot of work that needs to be done that would—the country needs, and it would serve him better, and so I—I mean, I just think when—when you're out there raising money right and left, and then you're talking about how you need to reform the system, it rings a little hollow.

SCHIEFFER: I must say that I was a little surprised at—at the—kind of the harshness of those words. Senators don't normally talk about senators in their own party in—in that—that tone of voice. Is this becau—is he a supporter of Governor Bush? Does he not like you personally, or is it something you've done or stood for that he's against? What's the deal here?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, we have a very good relationship a—and we've been friends for many years. I think he exhibits some frustration about the fact that I've told him that we will address the issue of campaign finance reform, or I and Russ Feingold will—and others will do everything we can to see that this issue is voted on in the Senate. And I'm sure that is not in keeping with the calendar that—that Senator Lott has. So I—I think it's a little bit of frustration about that, but the—the reality is, I've been out there on the campaign trail. The American people do want this issue addressed. They believe we're corrupt, they believe that the reason why we don't have tax reform and the reason why there's a 40,000-page tax code, and the reason why we don't reform education or—or our defense establishment is because of the influence of special interests, which is generated by soft money. And I'm convinced that that's the case, and Senator Lott may not have room for it, but I intend to make room for it.

SCHIEFFER: How are you going to do that, Senator?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, as you know, in the United States Senate the rules are that if you hang tough, you can probably get a vote. And we're going to do whatever we can to see that there are votes on the issue. I think that's my right as a senator, and there are other senators who feel the same way, that this issue ought to be addressed.

SCHIEFFER: So—so what would you do? You would filibuster other legislation until you get a vote on this?

Sen. McCAIN: Oh, no.

SCHIEFFER: Would you try to tie up the Senate with procedural maneuverers?
How would you do that?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, the first step, obviously, to ask, as we did last year, to—that we could have a vote on the issue. I hope that Senator Lott would see we could dispense with it in a matter of hours. If not, obviously, we will have to try to do what we can to see that that's done. I don't enjoy tie—quote, "tying up the Senate." I've never filibustered in seven—in 13 years in the Senate. But I think we ought to do whatever we can to get the issue addressed.

SCHIEFFER: So you'd be prepared to do that if that's what it takes to get a vote on campaign finance reform.

Sen. McCAIN: Obviously, I would be prepared to exercise my rights as a senator.

BORGER: Governor Bush has his own campaign finance reform plan which does not include eliminating soft money, which is something that your plan does include.

Sen. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

BORGER: He is for disclosure, but he wants no limit on individual contributions. That I, Gloria Borger, as an individual could—could give whatever I wanted to a campaign.

Sen. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

BORGER: What's wrong with that plan?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, the only thing that's wrong with it, as we have seen, is that the so-called soft money and huge money has made the process in—unduly influenced by special interests, the big corporations, the big companies, the very wealthy individuals. They get a seat at the table, and the average citizens do not. And I've seen legislation that is affected directly, and unfortunately not in the best interests of the average citizen. And the—the e—now Congress places the special interests above the public interest, and I have seen that, Gloria, because I work there. And we need to do what we did in 1974, in 1947 and 1907. And that is restrict the amounts of contributions, just as was the case when I first ran for the House in 1982. There was no such thing as soft money, now it's run amok.

BORGER: What's wrong with raising the amount an individual can give, though? That—Governor Bush proposes this right now—the limit is at $ 1,000. Would you go along with that if you could get rid of the soft money?

Sen. McCAIN: To—to unlimited individual donations?

BORGER: To raise the amount that—yeah, or—or unlimited individual contributions.

Sen. McCAIN: Of—of course not. That—that's not—that would give in—inappropriate influence to special interests and special individuals. I mean, everybody knows what that is. Look, the American people have figured it out. That's why the 18- to 26-year-old vote in the last election was the lowest in history, is because they know that they are no longer represented in Washington. If you have unlimited—no limits on the amount of campaign contributions that can be made, obviously, then they are further shut out and this system continues to deteriorate.

SCHIEFFER: Senator, what are the differences between you and Governor Bush? Let's say that this race comes down to a race for the nomination between the two of you, what would separate you?

Sen. McCAIN: I don't know Governor Bush's positions on a number of issues. I know we disagree on ethanol subsidies. I'm adamantly opposed to a system of subsidies that you could take that money and use for test voucher systems in—in every major school district in America instead of giving it to Archer Daniels Midland. I think it's clear—we just talked about our view on camp—need for campaign finance reform. I think my experience and my—both legislative and life are somewhat different, but I really think, Bob, it gets down in these campaigns to how you articulate your vision for the future. He's a very fine man, so is Elizabeth Dole, so is Pat Buchanan. I'm blessed—I think the country is blessed to have some very fine candidates running.

SCHIEFFER: So let's suppose he gets the nomination. What about John McCain as vice president or the second spot on the ticket?

Sen. McCAIN: I've said on a number of occasions, I believe the vice president has two duties, one is to inquire daily as to the health of the president, and the other is to go to the funerals of Third World dictators. I'm not interested in the job.

SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, Senator, thank you very much.

Sen. McCAIN: Thank you.

SCHIEFFER: I'm—I'm sure we'll be talking to you again as we go on further down the trail.

Sen. McCAIN: Thanks, Bob.

SCHIEFFER: When we come back, we'll talk with the chairman of the Senatorial Campaign Committees, Republican Mitch McConnell, and Democrat Robert Torricelli, in a minute.